Isis

[Stiffy]

Didn't it Chang to ISIL

Renamed to Islamic State according to Wikipedia

"The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL /ˈaɪsəl/; Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية في العراق والشام‎), also known as Islamic State of Iraq and Syria or Islamic State of Iraq and ash-Sham (ISIS /ˈaɪsɪs/),[SUP][23][/SUP] is an Islamic extremist rebel group controlling territory in Iraq and Syria, and also has operations in eastern Libya, the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt, and other areas of the Middle East,[SUP][24][/SUP] North Africa, South Asia,[SUP][25][/SUP] and Southeast Asia.[SUP][25][/SUP][SUP][26][/SUP] The group is known in Arabic as ad-Dawlat al-Islāmiyah fī al-ʿIrāq wa sh-Shām, leading to the Arabic acronym Da'ish or DAESH (داعش, Arabic pronunciation: daːʕiʃ).[SUP][23][/SUP] On 29 June 2014, the group proclaimed itself to be a worldwide caliphate and renamed itself Islamic State"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

 

[Darkoz]

Those bastards can't even make up their mind as to what to call themselves

 

[steveP]

It was actually ISIL form the beginning. The media fucked up and called it ISIS, and now it has stuck.

 

[Arfwit]

I think to a degree you need to fight fire with fire with this sort of group - it seems to be the worst on face value of the terrorist groups we have seen - but are they putting on a good show or do they really have some depth behind them? Al Qaeda - seem/ed to be a more organised group, with real financial backing - but ISIS still seems slightly a mystery in regards to this - all we really know is that they are fairly ruthless, they like to put on a show and they have a great social media marketing team.....I personally believe this fad of isis will die fairly quickly when they are confronted with a real enemy......

Of course Al Qaeda was more organized and funded, the Taliban were trained by the yanks, but that puppy broke its chains and went feral so they had it put down.

 

[Big Mick]

I don't really get it TBH.

It's like arguing about Santa and the Easter Bunny. Then someone starts cutting peoples heads off because they don't believe in the Easter Bunny.

It's all about my imaginary god is better than your imaginary god.

Time to watch 'The Life of Brian' again to see just how ridiculous this is.

 

[Fadi]

@Fadi ; is true Islam about peace and love etc or do they (Muslims) believe in killing all those who are not Muslims?

Yes, peace and love, but not before social justice, which means equality in law, or justice for all. From justice is born peace, love, harmony and admiration. In other words, the fruits of justice is peace, love, and all that has a positive attribute. I cannot love an unjust government, and therefore I cannot truly be in peace with it; here’s how a revolution is born!

As far as the killing of non-Muslims by Muslims. This would have to be one of the most popular misconceptions of all time when it comes to the Islamic faith. Did you know that amongst about 350,000,000 Arabs in the middle-east, there lives about 20,000,000 Christians? Islam has always given respect and freedom of religion to all faiths. Freedom of religion is ordained in the Quran itself: “There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion.The right course has become clear from the wrong.”(Quran 2:256). Let me quote some people here for you to illustrate my point about the spread of Islam and the accusation that it was spread by the sword.

The noted historian De Lacy O’Leary wrote in his book: Islam at the Crossroads, p.8. “History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

The famous historian,Thomas Carlyle, in his book Heroes and Hero worship, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam by the sword: “The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one; in one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and tries to propagate with that will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.”

If Islam was spread by the sword, it was the sword of the intellect and convincing arguments. It is this sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Quran says in this connection:“Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best.” (Quran 16:125)

The facts speak for themselves: Indonesia is the country that has the largest number of Muslims in the world, and the majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. But, no Muslim army ever went to Indonesia or Malaysia. It is an established historical fact that Indonesia entered Islam not due to war, but because of its moral message. Despite the disappearance of Islamic government from many regions once ruled by it, their original inhabitants have remained Muslims. Moreover, they carried the message of truth, inviting others to it as well, and in so doing endured harm, affliction and oppression. The same can be said for those in the regions of Syria and Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, North Africa, Asia, the Balkans and in Spain. This shows that the effect of Islam on the population was one of moral conviction, in contrast to occupation by western colonialists, finally compelled to leave lands whose peoples held only memories of affliction, sorrow, subjugation and oppression.


French troops in Algeria showing off the heads of Algerian resistance fighters. Please note that those resistance fighters were called terrorists back in the day, when 1,000,000 Algerians died to liberate their country and free it from the French occupation.

I would really love to keep the discussion in this thread constructive. I expect the ideas here to be controversial and I expect my fellow members to question them, but I won’t respond to derogatory comments or those from individuals who are clearly unwilling to contemplate references and arguments that disagree with their preconceptions. It’s not because I have no response to such comments — it’s because I have a policy in life to avoid wasting time on no-win interactions. By all means, disagree with me, challenge me, but please show me the respect I try to show everyone else. If you think I am a complete moron and that you’ve got it all figured out, I am happy for you and have no interest in trying to change your mind. But please understand that there are not enough hours in my day to spend them engaging in this sort of fruitless interaction. Flamers, please head to another thread. Thankyou.

 

[Stiffy]

Thank you again for posting Fadi. One of the misconceptions I as a non-Muslim hear from people regularly is that religion (Islam and Christianity alike) are the cause of a lot of wars. You hear the term "holy war" being used. I feel this is one of the greatest misconceptions out there. I myself began to wonder whether there was something in it where the killing of another person who is not of your faith is acceptable and encouraged. I have heard in the media of reports of killings that took place where a person was required to make quotes from the Quran and if they couldn't they were executed. These extremist groups to me were not true Muslims as I had always believed Islam, like Christianity, to be a peace and loving faith. But as I said, I began to wonder with the accumulation of media reports.

I thank you for the partial quote below Fadi. This to me reinforces my previous held beliefs and also educates me further. Certainly food for thought.

Yes, peace and love, but not before social justice, which means equality in law, or justice for all. From justice is born peace, love, harmony and admiration. In other words, the fruits of justice is peace, love, and all that has a positive attribute. I cannot love an unjust government, and therefore I cannot truly be in peace with it; here’s how a revolution is born!

Your posts are a great ambassador for the Muslim community Fadi, and thank you for taking the time and energy to educate us as I feel some of the problems we have at the moment are due to misconceptions about religions.


I know we like to have a bit of a chuckle here on Ausbb, but I think respect needs to be given as carelessly insulting a person's faith is one of, if not the most insulting things that can be done to a person.

 

[Darkoz]

I like listening to Richard Dawkins debates but he is a bit of an old stick in the mud as the ambassador for the Atheist religion.

 

[Headley]

Last i heard, from an Iraqi christian immigrant (and other sources) was that they (christians in Iraq) are one of the most persecuted groups on the planet.

 

[spartacus]

I am sure there are many good and bad examples of tolerance everywhere.

A few more bad stories, no go areas for services in Paris, and treatment of Christians in Egypt.

Not sure how true, though. See following.

http://rt.com/news/224555-paris-sue-fox-news/

 

[kramer1]

Richard Dawkins : religon is not vunerable to rational argument / discourse

 

[kramer1]

critisize islam ,,get shot,,religon of peace lulz

 

[Stiffy]

Richard Dawkins : religon is not vunerable to rational argument / discourse

Considering your post in the last thread, I think you're vulnerable to rational argument and discourse. Your posts reek of extremism and nonsense of a kind similar to ISIS and the Taliban.

 

[kramer1]

Considering your post in the last thread, I think you're vulnerable to rational argument and discourse. Your posts reek of extremism and nonsense of a kind similar to ISIS and the Taliban.

everyone should be vunerable to rational argument and discourse me included yes,,but the religous are not,,blind faith rules the way

 

[kramer1]

Considering your post in the last thread, I think you're vulnerable to rational argument and discourse. Your posts reek of extremism and nonsense of a kind similar to ISIS and the Taliban.

extremism? are people that are against religon the new extremists?

 

[kramer1]

Ten Obvious Reasons Why Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace
#1	18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islamin just the last ten years. (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).
#2	Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
#3	Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that. Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. Hebeheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
#4	After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into war with each other. Fatima, Muhammad's favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six months after her father died. She even miscarried Muhammad's grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph. Fatima's husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was a "perfect woman." 10,000 Muslims were killed in a single battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad's death. Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions. The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned). The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth. The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons. The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph. The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad's family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time. Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war... And that's just the fate of those within the house of Islam!
#5	Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands.A mere 25 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies had captured land and people within the borders of over 28 modern countries outside of Saudi Arabia.
#6	Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah. None of these other religions are at war with each other.
#7	Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to theexample set by Muhammad.
#8	Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.
#9	The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.
#10	"Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!" (The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)

 

[Stiffy]

extremism? are people that are against religon the new extremists?

No, just nut jobs like you, ISIS and the Taliban etc.

 

[kramer1]

No, just nut jobs like you, ISIS and the Taliban etc.

lol your putting me in the same category as ISIS how the fuck did you come to this conclusion?

 

[Repacked]

Ten Obvious Reasons Why Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace
#1	18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islamin just the last ten years. (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).
#2	Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
#3	Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that. Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. Hebeheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
#4	After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into war with each other. Fatima, Muhammad's favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six months after her father died. She even miscarried Muhammad's grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph. Fatima's husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was a "perfect woman." 10,000 Muslims were killed in a single battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad's death. Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions. The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned). The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth. The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons. The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph. The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad's family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time. Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war... And that's just the fate of those within the house of Islam!
#5	Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands.A mere 25 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies had captured land and people within the borders of over 28 modern countries outside of Saudi Arabia.
#6	Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah. None of these other religions are at war with each other.
#7	Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to theexample set by Muhammad.
#8	Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.
#9	The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.
#10	"Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!" (The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)

Posting crap like this from right wing anti-muslim websites doesn't do your argument any good.

 

[Stiffy]

[MENTION=9034]kaz[/MENTION]; [MENTION=895]Sonic[/MENTION]; can you ban this tosser from this thread if he starts making deliberately inflammatory posts like the last time.