Genetic Potential and upper limits!!!!?

[BoyFromAus]

Fadi, what about myostatin. Would you say it's something exaggerated or does it play a major role in limiting people from developing more muscle?

 

[vader-nator]

Of course I have had tremendous success with this. Extensive consumption of expensive supplements, like the consumption of several kilograms of meat each day, is absolutely necessary to be able to get any results at all. Just ask those pencil-necked geek, Sandow, Hackenschmidt, Grimek, and Steve Reeves. Pussies.

Macros are important, too. Also if you don't consume a protein shake within 3 minutes of the end of your workout it was completely wasted. They work especially well in combination with split routines and BUCKETLOADS OF STEROIDS.

Honest.

Ahem Reeves at his best ain't a pussy......

One of the all time best drug free dudes.

 

[pistachio]

Ahem Reeves at his best ain't a pussy......

One of the all time best drug free dudes.

heres another question, is a Steve Reeves physique achievable for your average joe??

 

[Fadi]

Fadi, what about myostatin. Would you say it's something exaggerated or does it play a major role in limiting people from developing more muscle?

Rasika, I've written a whole article on the subject called OK Drugs! remember? I don't think Rob has seen it though, so here it is...

http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9230-ok-drugs.html



Fadi.

 

[vader-nator]

heres another question, is a Steve Reeves physique achievable for your average joe??

Not the average joe but drug free none the less.

As a drug free trainer that is as high as I can conceivably get the bar.

This is big by average joe standards.

At public events etc with the normal aussie yobbo element, I often get calls from the crowd " Cough... Steroids "

Sadly I have to wear the same badge as the drug monsters because most people just don't get it. Kinda sucks when I have never taken any.

Yes you can be as big as Reeves and most WWE guys without drugs. Just not the main event draw cards. Batista is a disgrace..... but cool none the less. Have a look at John Cenas forearms and hands in The Marine. No way is he natural. GH loaded to the max.

I know only a hand full of big drug free guys. None of us compete in Naturals.

Why?..... we know the guys who win.

Sorry if my jaded view of so called drug free comps offends anyone. I am merely stating fact.

Train to be strong and happy.

Rob

 

[vader-nator]

Rasika, I've written a whole article on the subject called OK Drugs! remember? I don't think Rob has seen it though, so here it is...

http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9230-ok-drugs.html



Fadi.

Kind of goes against my mind set.

Good that it's legal and all that but I simply like to train hard enough to trigger a response, then provide the nutrients.

Doesn't get any more drug free than that.

Rob

 

[kindred]

I saw on a TV show a South African special forces guy saying that one you reach a point were your body just wont perform anymore you have only reached 1/3 of your full potential. The mind is a powerful thing and i believe it is the mind that holds back most people.

How does that help you? Im not sure but i thought it was worth mentioning.

What are your stats now Vader-Nator?

 

[PTC]

I apologize first for only reading the original post, so if someone has already said this, I'm sorry.

The only limiting factor is the mind. For a muscle to get bigger, we need to give it a reason to grow. You can trick it for a while with different angles and assorted exercises, but the single best way is to keep increasing the weight used.

Its very easy to measure, very easy to do. As long as the mind is willing. If you have 20 years of logs, you can easily track back and see how much your squat has increased. If you only add 1kg per month, and you started with 60kg, you should be up to 300kg after 240 months. Thats only adding 0.04gms per day.

Next is diet. If you injest 3600 calories a day when you start at 80kg, this needs to keep increasing.At 110kg that number should be 4725 calories per day, and so on.

Progressive resistance followed by progressive eating knows no boundaries. Sure you will slow up, but you wont stop. The rate of progress definitely slows, but the progression of weight stops for most lifters after a handful of years.

I was there when a lifter called Adam Coe did his first squat, I was also there when he squatted 350kg, he simply kept adding weight and eating more, moving to a solid 100kg +

Most get derailed with fancy routines, softer options, because it gets too hard. Damn right it gets hard, thats why its so rewarding, coz very few ever keep increasing weights after 5 years, or they switch to easier exercises.

I have pics in my Strength Journals of Jesse Marunde as a kid lifting. A decade later he finished second in the WSM competition.

Progressive resistance on the big lifts followed by proggresive eating will keep you improving.

Anyone can feel free to show me how they kept increasing the poundage used on the squat for 20 years followed by big eating and then demonstrate that they didnt keep growing.

It never happened.

 

[Morgan]

So your saying I can look like Ronnie Coleman if I just keep eat/lifting? There is a limit!

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Of course there's a limit. But let's face it, most of us will never get close to it.

There's the limit of physiology, then there's the limit of willpower, effort, organisation of diet, time available for training compared to time with family and other hobbies and work, whether you get sick or injured along the way, and so on and so forth.

It's like saying that one car can go 230km/hr while another can "only" go 190km/hr. It might be true, but the chances are you'll never be willing or able to go that fast anyway.

Of course, I'm sure that people with GTRs drive like fcking hoons as fast as physically possible

 

[vader-nator]

What are your stats now Vader-Nator?[/QUOTE]

LOL

BEEFCAKE! Weightgain 4000 at the moment.

MArking tests, writing reports and making excuses for letting the stress of life getting to me.

Still getting strong again but turning into a silverback.

Rob

 

[vader-nator]

I apologize first for only reading the original post, so if someone has already said this, I'm sorry.

The only limiting factor is the mind. For a muscle to get bigger, we need to give it a reason to grow. You can trick it for a while with different angles and assorted exercises, but the single best way is to keep increasing the weight used.

Its very easy to measure, very easy to do. As long as the mind is willing. If you have 20 years of logs, you can easily track back and see how much your squat has increased. If you only add 1kg per month, and you started with 60kg, you should be up to 300kg after 240 months. Thats only adding 0.04gms per day.

Next is diet. If you injest 3600 calories a day when you start at 80kg, this needs to keep increasing.At 110kg that number should be 4725 calories per day, and so on.

Progressive resistance followed by progressive eating knows no boundaries. Sure you will slow up, but you wont stop. The rate of progress definitely slows, but the progression of weight stops for most lifters after a handful of years.

I was there when a lifter called Adam Coe did his first squat, I was also there when he squatted 350kg, he simply kept adding weight and eating more, moving to a solid 100kg +

Most get derailed with fancy routines, softer options, because it gets too hard. Damn right it gets hard, thats why its so rewarding, coz very few ever keep increasing weights after 5 years, or they switch to easier exercises.

I have pics in my Strength Journals of Jesse Marunde as a kid lifting. A decade later he finished second in the WSM competition.

Progressive resistance on the big lifts followed by proggresive eating will keep you improving.

Anyone can feel free to show me how they kept increasing the poundage used on the squat for 20 years followed by big eating and then demonstrate that they didnt keep growing.

It never happened.

I wish it was that simple but it isn't.

Why do we keep training logs? To keep modifying variables and gaining all the time. I haven't just kept them for the fun of it.

Your logic is the same as the Greek Legend of Milo.

Who knows.....? Perhaps I am too grounded in reality to let fantasy take a hold enough to actually work.

Dare to dream and all that...... The mind is an amazing thing, so too is our ability to adapt to stress.


MILO OF CROTON

AMONG the athletes whose statues were to be seen at Olympia was Milo, a man of Croton, one of the Greek colonies in Italy. This man was remarkable for his great strength, and could carry very heavy weights. In order to develop his muscle and become strong, he had trained himself from a boy, and had practised carrying burdens until he could lift more than any other man of his time.
We are told that he was so earnest in his efforts to become strong, that he daily carried a pet calf, gradually increasing the distance. As the calf grew larger, Milo became stronger, and his muscles became so powerful that he could carry the animal with ease when it became a full-sized ox.

Great story. Proves guys like us have been at this caper since forever.

Have fun

Rob


FYI

Here is how he met his end....

One day when he was very old, Milo wandered out alone into a forest where some woodcutters had been at work. The men had gone away, leaving their wedges in an unusually large tree trunk.
Milo, remembering his former strength, gazed for a moment at the tree, and then, feeling sure that he could easily pull it apart, he slipped his fingers into the crack. At his first effort the tree parted a little, and the wedges fell out; but the two halves, instead of splitting apart, suddenly came together again, and Milo found his hands held fast.
In vain he struggled, in vain he called. He could neither wrench himself free nor attract any one's attention. Night came on, and soon the wild beasts of the forest began to creep out of their dens.
They found the captive athlete, and, springing upon him, tore him to pieces, for he could not defend himself, in spite of all his boasted strength.

 

[PowerBuilder]

Genetic potential is an interesting concept. Could a natural athlete (and when i say natural, i mean 100% natural, not using 'sort of' steroids) eventually get to the size of Markus Rhul

Maybe. When i say maybe i really do mean maybe. Maybe after 20'ish years of solid serious training, eating, supplementation, cardio & dedication. That is of course not to say that vador has been piss farting around for the last 20 years.

Maybe genetic potential of what can be acheived over the span of 20 (for example) years has something to do with when you start. What if you started when you were 12? 15 years old? 20? What we do has a lot (read mostly) to do with hormone production. Things like testosterone, Growth Hormone, Insulin & Cholesterol. At the tender age of 12, these hormones are created in larger doses than when your 20.

what does everyone think

 

[vader-nator]

Absolutely NOT.

I would of course be there by now!

LOL

Kidding..........

But I am 100% natural. Don't know many guys my size that are. I have a mate in Melbourne who is decent size and he is 100% drug free too.

Thats the tricky part........

Who is actually 100% life time drug free?

Genetic potential is an interesting concept. Could a natural athlete (and when i say natural, i mean 100% natural, not using 'sort of' steroids) eventually get to the size of Markus Rhul

Maybe. When i say maybe i really do mean maybe. Maybe after 20'ish years of solid serious training, eating, supplementation, cardio & dedication. That is of course not to say that vador has been piss farting around for the last 20 years.

Maybe genetic potential of what can be acheived over the span of 20 (for example) years has something to do with when you start. What if you started when you were 12? 15 years old? 20? What we do has a lot (read mostly) to do with hormone production. Things like testosterone, Growth Hormone, Insulin & Cholesterol. At the tender age of 12, these hormones are created in larger doses than when your 20.

what does everyone think

 

[PowerBuilder]

So there's obviously a gap, a point somewhere that means your genetic potential stops & a glass ceiling is in place. After all, we're created with physical limits. Possibly somebody's discussed in this thread about the running of the mile myth & 100m sprint myth. Will anybody EVER be able to run 100m in 9 seconds & to be drug free ? I absolutely dont believe that all olympic athletes are drug free. Heck, with the amount of money on the table, why wouldn't you ? To me, for every person putting together a test to spot gear, there's 3 people working a way around it


</rant

 

[vader-nator]

So there's obviously a gap, a point somewhere that means your genetic potential stops & a glass ceiling is in place. After all, we're created with physical limits. Possibly somebody's discussed in this thread about the running of the mile myth & 100m sprint myth. Will anybody EVER be able to run 100m in 9 seconds & to be drug free ? I absolutely dont believe that all olympic athletes are drug free. Heck, with the amount of money on the table, why wouldn't you ? To me, for every person putting together a test to spot gear, there's 3 people working a way around it


</rant

Don't get me started on the olympics and drugs...... LOL

 

[Fadi]

So there's obviously a gap, a point somewhere that means your genetic potential stops & a glass ceiling is in place. After all, we're created with physical limits. Possibly somebody's discussed in this thread about the running of the mile myth & 100m sprint myth. Will anybody EVER be able to run 100m in 9 seconds & to be drug free ? I absolutely dont believe that all olympic athletes are drug free. Heck, with the amount of money on the table, why wouldn't you ? To me, for every person putting together a test to spot gear, there's 3 people working a way around it


</rant

Re the 100m sprint, there will definitely be a limit, steroids or not. The reason is that the sprinter (no matter how fast), needs to spend some time on the ground. One expert (can't remember the name right now), is forecasting a 9.2 seconds as the fastest we'll ever get to. He then went on to say that others before him have placed some limitations on other events, only to see them surpassed.

But yes, there will always be a limiting factor.


Fadi.

 

[PowerBuilder]

i think we've maybe read the same article. From memory, it was also talking about gene doping, about it's pro's, con's and an overview on what it is and where it can take us

 

[The Hulk]

What about the straw that broke the donkeys' back?
Is it not relevant here?

Injuries and stagnation, then maybe slight loss of strength are possible.
So many variables come into play when it comes to the human body.

Sure our minds can become wiser over time with experience, but can the same happen with our bodies, ie. continual progression rather than regression?

So to the initial question of this thread:
Genetic potential and upper limits?

Although I see the mind as the most powerful tool available, I can't see that it is powerful enough to overcome the genetic capacity which was given to us even before we were born.

 

[Oli]

This situation always gets me thinking about the law of diminishing returns.
How badly do you want those extra gains and how much more will you have to do to get them.

Once you really reach a certain level, is the increased effort required (on top of what you're already doing) to keep improving, worth the minor gains?

If you are a regular guy with a life and not competing, I would think not.

This.

What stops most people reaching their limits is that Joe Average doesn't want to follow a 6 month periodization cycle to put that extra 1kg on the bar.