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Split Routines?
Bench Polkov
SIR BENCHALOT
Your ignorance is fucking astounding. You just proved that you're an idiot.
I'm going to parrot what Christian has alread said here. We are trying to discourage beginners from using splits, not everybody. It's not that beginners can't get big on BB splits with lots of iso's, its that the general best starting point, chosen by using logic and scientific theory, is a full body routine focusing on the main compound lifts. This promotes balance, efficiency and maximum development and understanding in the beginner lifter. Note: this is a general rule, there will always be exceptions.
And further, most fat powerlifters are fat because they choose to be, it gives them better leverages and makes their suits tighter or bench ROM shorter, these are the heavyweight lifters hitting the biggest numbers. Look at the light heavies and below, most will be lean and some even ripped to the bone.
lozzo
New member
If you think all powerlifters are fat, than your knowledge of them extends only to a few videos you've seen on youtube. And here you are whining about other people making false assumptions. Don't start something you can't finish.
Aiden3121
New member
various shit from the net, some personal, some from friends with 10+ years expierence, and few articles.
Believe what you want, splits do work from little knowledge in this area.... Because i do them and i get bigger slowly.
Prove to me that splits dont work? i never said full body dosnt work i just said its not as good as splits are for bb.
Thats my opinoin
Believe what you want, splits do work from little knowledge in this area.... Because i do them and i get bigger slowly.
Prove to me that splits dont work? i never said full body dosnt work i just said its not as good as splits are for bb.
Thats my opinoin
Bench Polkov
SIR BENCHALOT
Aiden3121
New member
lol you dont think i Know why they are fat??
i do have some knowledge of that sport.
Ok yes they are ripped underneath all that fat.
just like we all have abs underneath that fat.
dosnt mean they are not fucking fat....
Lol i dont give a shit if you think im an idiot.
They look nothing like BB and they dont look good okay?
maybe a few do but when your at 15% + BF you don't look good at all in my opinion, u look fat, you might need that fat but dosnt mean ur not fat. Just cause you choose to dosnt mean shit.
i cant win this cos theres like 50 people here dedicated to powerlifting/strength training, im done on this thread.
shove it all up your ass, train hard and you will get results. thats it
enjoy !
i do have some knowledge of that sport.
Ok yes they are ripped underneath all that fat.
just like we all have abs underneath that fat.
dosnt mean they are not fucking fat....
Lol i dont give a shit if you think im an idiot.
They look nothing like BB and they dont look good okay?
maybe a few do but when your at 15% + BF you don't look good at all in my opinion, u look fat, you might need that fat but dosnt mean ur not fat. Just cause you choose to dosnt mean shit.
i cant win this cos theres like 50 people here dedicated to powerlifting/strength training, im done on this thread.
shove it all up your ass, train hard and you will get results. thats it
enjoy !
Bench Polkov
SIR BENCHALOT
Your argument here lacks any foundation.
That's probably lucky then.
Rugby88
I have Ep1c Calendar kunce
lol...
Beginners should do a mix of compound exercises and isolation movements simple as that.
If a guy who was a beginner came to me and wanted to do bodybuilding then I would put him on that style of program - of course focused around compound movements but it a split program.
If a guy who was a beginner came to me and wanted to do powerlifting then I would put him on a strength based program - more likey full body, but also included isolation movements.
Bodybuilding and Powerlifting are different for 2 reasons - 1. the training styles they use and 2. for the end results.
Stick with programs that have proven themselves in each bodybuilding and powerlifting and mix that with motivation to succeed and training intensity and you are on the right track to reach your goals.
Half ass anything which ALOT of ppl do and you wont reach your goals - when you see gym rats doing chest and bis every day its because they know no different - its not because they are trying to be bodybuilders - if they were then they would research and study training variations just like ppl do/have to with powerlifting....much like all we do on a daily basis on this forum.
Beginners should do a mix of compound exercises and isolation movements simple as that.
If a guy who was a beginner came to me and wanted to do bodybuilding then I would put him on that style of program - of course focused around compound movements but it a split program.
If a guy who was a beginner came to me and wanted to do powerlifting then I would put him on a strength based program - more likey full body, but also included isolation movements.
Bodybuilding and Powerlifting are different for 2 reasons - 1. the training styles they use and 2. for the end results.
Stick with programs that have proven themselves in each bodybuilding and powerlifting and mix that with motivation to succeed and training intensity and you are on the right track to reach your goals.
Half ass anything which ALOT of ppl do and you wont reach your goals - when you see gym rats doing chest and bis every day its because they know no different - its not because they are trying to be bodybuilders - if they were then they would research and study training variations just like ppl do/have to with powerlifting....much like all we do on a daily basis on this forum.
Rugby88
I have Ep1c Calendar kunce
I think alot of this "fighting" is due to the fact that alot of ppl on this forum dont like bodybuilding or the idea of ppl bodybuilding....which is fair enough I have gone through phases where I have thought bodybuilding and the training styles is below powerlifting and the science behind the programs - but I love bodybuilding and I love powerlifting and I understand how to separate them as sports and separate the different training ideas behind them.
Bench Polkov
SIR BENCHALOT
You really haven't seen that many powerlifters have you. Google Matt Kroc, a pl'er turned bb'er. Google any powerlifter under the 242 or 100kg weight division. You'll see abs and veins and lots of them.
Goosey
.
Split Routines, Steroids, and ‘Isolationism’ The facts....
Split routines first began to rear their ugly little heads sometime in the late 50s or early 60s, around the time that steroid use was really becoming widespread in the bodybuilding and lifting communities.
*A coincidence?
*What i know is heavy, often high-rep, leg and back work is absolutely essential for making size and strength gains drug-free, but let’s face it: heavy leg and back work, properly performed, is brutal, hard and uncomfortable.*
Thus, it may not be a complete surprise that when lifters found they could achieve significant increases in muscular size and strength without subjecting themselves to the brutally heavy lifting, they did so. (In their defense, though, it’s worth noting that they didn’t know of the dangerous side effects of the drugs at that time; also, they were taking much lower doses and much fewer varieties of the drugs than are the lifters and bodybuilders of today.)*
One rationale for the use of split routines is that it allows the lifter to train the individual muscle groups with greater focus and intensity, thus developing greater size and strength in those muscles.
*Well, I would submit that this logic only really applies to a lifter only using drugs -- Dianabol, Winstrol, etc.*
A natural lifter with *‘average’ genetics is not going to receive much in the way of results from such a program since he will not be getting much in the way of an endocrine response.
Another argument for the use of split routines is that they will allow one to train more frequently because you are training different parts of the body each time.*
Well, I'm *thinking this is only partly accurate.*
Yes, you may be training different muscles each time, but there is so much more to the body than just the muscular system, every workout is full body as far as the recovery system is concerned.*
Let’s not forget the many other systems: nervous, endocrine, skeletal, etc. If one were to -- as many bodybuilders do -- train to the point of muscular failure several times in a workout -- and do that several times in a week -- even if you are training different muscle groups, you are still causing considerable systemic fatigue; “wiring up” the nervous system, for example, as well as draining the various energy systems, depleting the endocrine system, etc.*
With proper nutrition and recover strategies, it may be possible for the drug-free, average trainee to mitigate some of these factors -- but for a steroid-using lifter, it becomes a no-brainer; steroids are known to considerably accelerate the recovery process.*
One of the biggest problems that I have with split routines is that it results in an ‘isolation mentality’.*
Every effort is made, more often than not, to try to isolate each individual muscle.*
The practice, by definition, results in a loss of some of the very best drills one could do. The squat for instance; should it be trained on back day or leg day?*
But wait, what if you do squat-snatches; is that a leg drill or a back drill; and doesn’t it also involve the shoulders to an extent?*
The bent press; where do you start with that?*
Dead-lift; back or legs? High pulls? One-arm dumbbell swings? Dumbbell cleans? Sots presses?*
Whole-body routines, if considered at all today, are thought to be appropriate only for beginners.*
After the first 3-6 months -- perhaps as much as a year? Fuck I don't know *-- you have to switch to a split routine if you want to continue to make progress -- or so we‘re led to believe.*
This is all quite absurd.*
“Back in the day”, as the saying goes, most of the strongest and best-built lifters trained on whole-body routines for the duration of their careers, and made relatively steady progress the entire time -- even setting lifting records that have yet to be broken to this day!*
Take this for what it's cost you, absolutely nothing.
Think of split training as a template used for emphasizing a body part rather than thinking you can isolate certain parts of the body, or until you can master the art of only allowing part of your body to sleep while keeping the other awake... for a long healthy lifting life, *consider this.
Split routines first began to rear their ugly little heads sometime in the late 50s or early 60s, around the time that steroid use was really becoming widespread in the bodybuilding and lifting communities.
*A coincidence?
*What i know is heavy, often high-rep, leg and back work is absolutely essential for making size and strength gains drug-free, but let’s face it: heavy leg and back work, properly performed, is brutal, hard and uncomfortable.*
Thus, it may not be a complete surprise that when lifters found they could achieve significant increases in muscular size and strength without subjecting themselves to the brutally heavy lifting, they did so. (In their defense, though, it’s worth noting that they didn’t know of the dangerous side effects of the drugs at that time; also, they were taking much lower doses and much fewer varieties of the drugs than are the lifters and bodybuilders of today.)*
One rationale for the use of split routines is that it allows the lifter to train the individual muscle groups with greater focus and intensity, thus developing greater size and strength in those muscles.
*Well, I would submit that this logic only really applies to a lifter only using drugs -- Dianabol, Winstrol, etc.*
A natural lifter with *‘average’ genetics is not going to receive much in the way of results from such a program since he will not be getting much in the way of an endocrine response.
Another argument for the use of split routines is that they will allow one to train more frequently because you are training different parts of the body each time.*
Well, I'm *thinking this is only partly accurate.*
Yes, you may be training different muscles each time, but there is so much more to the body than just the muscular system, every workout is full body as far as the recovery system is concerned.*
Let’s not forget the many other systems: nervous, endocrine, skeletal, etc. If one were to -- as many bodybuilders do -- train to the point of muscular failure several times in a workout -- and do that several times in a week -- even if you are training different muscle groups, you are still causing considerable systemic fatigue; “wiring up” the nervous system, for example, as well as draining the various energy systems, depleting the endocrine system, etc.*
With proper nutrition and recover strategies, it may be possible for the drug-free, average trainee to mitigate some of these factors -- but for a steroid-using lifter, it becomes a no-brainer; steroids are known to considerably accelerate the recovery process.*
One of the biggest problems that I have with split routines is that it results in an ‘isolation mentality’.*
Every effort is made, more often than not, to try to isolate each individual muscle.*
The practice, by definition, results in a loss of some of the very best drills one could do. The squat for instance; should it be trained on back day or leg day?*
But wait, what if you do squat-snatches; is that a leg drill or a back drill; and doesn’t it also involve the shoulders to an extent?*
The bent press; where do you start with that?*
Dead-lift; back or legs? High pulls? One-arm dumbbell swings? Dumbbell cleans? Sots presses?*
Whole-body routines, if considered at all today, are thought to be appropriate only for beginners.*
After the first 3-6 months -- perhaps as much as a year? Fuck I don't know *-- you have to switch to a split routine if you want to continue to make progress -- or so we‘re led to believe.*
This is all quite absurd.*
“Back in the day”, as the saying goes, most of the strongest and best-built lifters trained on whole-body routines for the duration of their careers, and made relatively steady progress the entire time -- even setting lifting records that have yet to be broken to this day!*
Take this for what it's cost you, absolutely nothing.
Think of split training as a template used for emphasizing a body part rather than thinking you can isolate certain parts of the body, or until you can master the art of only allowing part of your body to sleep while keeping the other awake... for a long healthy lifting life, *consider this.
Christian
Active Member, June10MOTM
I love bodybuilding...
I followed this trianing for along time before i realised flys with 12.5kg and the peck deck wasnt the best thing for me...
We are all saying the same shit, except that new guy...
And i will repeat myself again..
THis place is full of newbs
We are here to help them, pros dont ask for advice... So when the mens fitness split isnt working we give reason on how to build a base.
People ask questions when things arnt wokring for them, if they arnt working then its time for something new. So we give advice on how alot of more experienced people have expressed their views on training. (the best inthe world at bodybuilding).
At the end of the day BB = genetics drugs.. Powerlifting not so much if u just want to give it a crack.
Powerlifters are not fat because of there training.. They are fat because they eat to get strong and dont give a fuck about cutting. If you think full body compound lifts make u fat then your lost...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y9w_9EsKFM[/ame]
Look better then 90% of people in gyms around the country trying to be bodybuilders...
Kyle Aaron
Active member
There's something flowing freely in the women's food, judging by the timbre of some of their voices.
[YOUTUBE]zqwueeHyujs[/YOUTUBE]
Nice quote from the vid at 2:38, "a urine sample showed higher than normal level of steroids." Now there's an indictment of the sport if there ever was one
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Bench Polkov
SIR BENCHALOT
I bodybuilt before I powerlifted. I still follow the pro comps very closely, barracking for Phil Heath all the way and hating on Jay Cutler, Branch Warren and Kai Greene with much vigour.
Yes you can separate them as sports easily, and after a certain point in your training advancement you'd split the training but a newb lifter won't be either pl'er or bb'er for a very long time. They'll just be a newb lifter struggling to put on size and strength. At that stage of their development hey don't need to train differently to achieve different results, just training will produce both, so it stands to reason to choose the most efficient method of training.