Post up what you are eating V2.0

[steveP]

Arh, the last resort of someone who has no idea what they're talking about, attack the person instead of the argument.

Not that it's anyone's business but I'm quite happy with my life and everything I've achieved so far. I bought my first property at 25 and have been around a lot of the world. Everything I've done I've done on my own with no hand outs or favours.

Stop living in the past, that's the problem most people have and the reason others won't listen to people. Nothing gets people to tune out more than the "back in my day" spiel. If you're so knowledgeable and accomplished, why aren't you putting it into practice. Like you said, I'm a big believer in following those who lead by example. If all someone does is complain on the internet, I don't consider that leading.

 

[steveP]

How is it not practical in a real world but having exactly 30 grams of protein perfectly timed in 6 meals is practical in real life?? Makes perfect sense to no one.

This is exactly what I was talking about, everything has to be an extreme. No one said you have to consume exactly 30.0g of protein every x number of hours you're away divide 6.

I was simply going off the studies which say aim for between 20g-40g approx 5x a day. And preferably post workout and before bed. I think that's pretty flexible and easy to follow. Most people follow it without even trying.

 

[showdownhero]

Are you trying to sell an IF book? Those were pulled from someone selling a IF diet, as the only thing you missed is that it cures cancer.

If it's the holy grail of diets, why isn't everyone on it, including yourself? Like all fad diets, it's no practical in the real world.

I hope you realise that those claims come from bias studies with small sample sizes, looking for the results that sell. You know, the exact same reason you're against BCAAs and anything else that comes from a sup store. Or is it that you're on team BCAAs this month?

In credible scientific studies IF has been show to offer absolutely zero advantages over any other method of food consumption. Both the "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" and "IF will boost your GH levels" are not substantiated in any way shape or form.

However if some people find it easier to consume 2 large meals a day in order to stick to their macro nutrient goals then IF is a great option.

 

[Bazza20]

I agree, that for the average person who eats healthy and regularly, it will give almost no benefit or change in results. I was comparing the optimal eating plan of 30g of protein at a time, 5 or so times a day vs only a single meal where you eat anything and everything (maccas from the looks of it).

With such an extreme intermittent fasting approach, when do you actually train? Afterwards when you body is trying to digest a stupid amount of food, or before where you're completely fasted and no immediate fuel?

I don't eat anything and everything. I eat to my calorie and macro targets. 95% of my meals are home cooked meals, not that it matters. If I'm out somewhere I'll allow for what I feel like at the time. I love how people try and make out there is something magically bad for you about eating Macca's but if I ate a burger at a hippy health food store with the same ingredients it would be ok.


I train in the morning. If you think by morning time you have no fuel after a big meal from the night before you are mistaken. Digestion takes a long time. In any case I've trained in the morning "fasted" for probably over 5 years. Never effected me, if anything I feel and train better.


Your 25% claim is absolute fairyland stuff. If you are correct I should see some significant muscle loss if I continue this for a couple months. Haha. The bulk of human nutrition "ideals" is all a grey area. We don't know exactly what is ideal because it's so hard to do controlled studies in humans. We can't lock people up and feed various diets for their lifetime and compare results of different diets.

We know certain farm animal nutrition down to the ideal grams per day and ratios of various amino acids for ideal muscle growth, even with the comparative ease of researching farm animal diets compared to humans we are still finding out how much we don't know about what is ideal for them.

I'm not competing, I don't care about the maybe 1% shit. Ideal of 30g of protein per meal. Haha. Hello the 90s called.

 

[Bazza20]

I've posted a nice little concise podcast and linked the studies, but people ignore this and deny there are studies. I guess ignorance protects people's values, even if it does them a disservice.

Ok, I'm saying that 30g of protein 5x a day is optimal (as does the science). What would you suggest would be the inverse? For the same amount of calories and protein, what would be the most inefficient diet? I certainly would say one massive meal once a day. Not only is this inefficient for your body, but mentally you're going to have a very unhealthy relationship with food.

Building muscle and losing fat is a balance of peaks and valleys. When you eat you gain muscle and fat (simplified). When you train you break down muscle, and when you're not eating you're breaking down fat. To be optimal you want to smooth the peaks and valleys out.

Like I originally said, this is probably the best way to control weight and appetite. But there's a big difference in approaches to losing fat and gaining muscle.

You say to be optimal you want to smooth out the peaks and valleys. But do you.

They fed people with a constant amino acid drip. Steve's ideal diet, peaks and valleys smoothed totally out and the body down regulated muscle synthesis. It seems the body has a refractory period for optimal muscle synthesis or is slows it down. Too high of a meal frequency seems as if it's not ideal either.

The peaks and valleys may be needed for optimal muscle synthesis.

Now I'm not going to say meal frequency is totally irrelevant and you can eat once a week and get 99% of your gains.

I'm going to say eat somewhere between 5 times a day and once a day and that will get the bulk of your gains. If anyone claims they know the ideal frequency or the optimal grams of protein per meal they are talking shit.

 

[Bazza20]

Whoa, that escalated quickly. Calm down dude.

I never said protein timing is 25% of all training and diet. I said it would make 25% difference to the intermittent fasting approach bazza is using, as in my opinion that is the worst case scenario.

Why does everything have to be one extreme or the other? Carbs are the devil or fats are unicorn jizz. Intermittent fasting is the secret key to unlock god mode and eating regularly means you should give up lifting.

I've never claimed any special benefit for IF. I've never said you shouldn't eat regularly if that's what you want to do.

Two meals a day probably suits me better, I've been doing that for years. I'm just trying a single meal a day for a while to allow me more calories for a single meal as I need it.

 

[Bazza20]

I had this out with baz a week or so ago. There's absolutely nothing wrong with average joes using the tactics of the so called elites to achieve the optimal performance.

And anyone who tells you any differently is a dick head.

Nothing wrong. It's just largely a waste of time.

Should the beginner benching 50kg be using bands, boards, a slingshot, a triple ply bench shirt and a 20 week complicated Russian periodized bench program to get their bench to 55kg. They could and they would likely get to 55kg. They would have also done it just as fast if they walked into the gym and did 3 sets of bench twice a week.

 

[Repacked]

Ffs. Here we go again. No baby, no bath water. I don't think anyone was even criticising Bazzas foray into IF. The fact is Steve got himself into good enough condition to get on stage. Half the ****s that profess to know it all probably train the least. This is an odd forum. The tall poppy syndrome is strong.

 

[Shrek]

I don't see a problem trying to be the best you can be. Elite or otherwise.

 

[Goosey]

The lifting hobbyists or the person that wants to be their best only needs to do a small amount of exercise and not very often.
To quote ratios is moot and to go that extra in terms of diet, supplements and chemicals how that works out depends on the persons potential for looking the goods on the stage for which is genetics.

you'd be surprised how little some of the greatest actually worked.

 

[Goosey]

I don't see a problem trying to be the best you can be. Elite or otherwise.

The problem I see is that most of the modern day elite are an unhealthy bunch of people.

 

[simo74]

The lifting hobbyists or the person that wants to be their best only needs to do a small amount of exercise and not very often.
To quote ratios is moot and to go that extra in terms of diet, supplements and chemicals how that works out depends on the persons potential for looking the goods on the stage for which is genetics.

you'd be surprised how little some of the greatest actually worked.

And as they say 'the wheel is round" we come right back to the discussion from the other day. Its all about the genetics, some people train less often or never and will still be better than you....Its hard to admit this one but its true. However it doesn't mean that people shouldn't try to improve themselves by exercising and trying to eat right (whether at be 2 or 5 times a day). It always amazes me how people with essentially the same hobby and interests can have such passionate and polarising opinions. Good discussion guys, better than reading the paper !

 

[Bazza20]

Ffs. Here we go again. No baby, no bath water. I don't think anyone was even criticising Bazzas foray into IF. The fact is Steve got himself into good enough condition to get on stage. Half the ****s that profess to know it all probably train the least. This is an odd forum. The tall poppy syndrome is strong.

Not attacking Steve or his competing. I've congratulated him on before.

If you look, this started from Steve saying doing it my way would be 25% worse off than optimal. So he was attacking my way. I'm fine though, you don't need to rescue me.

 

[Goosey]

As I've said many times ( I think), diet and lifting doesn't need to be complicated.

even less for a gifted individual, but I'd one dude with average ability wants to strut his stuff in front of a bunch of screaming men along with the elite, then that average dude would really need to eat and train very smart and be chemically assisted for sure.

 

[Repacked]

I'm fine though, you don't need to rescue me.

Crushed.

 

[Repacked]

The lifting hobbyists or the person that wants to be their best only needs to do a small amount of exercise and not very often.
To quote ratios is moot and to go that extra in terms of diet, supplements and chemicals how that works out depends on the persons potential for looking the goods on the stage for which is genetics.

you'd be surprised how little some of the greatest actually worked.

What is this hobbyist I keep hearing about? Someone that wants to be their best, assuming that means put on maximum muscle or be as strong as possible has to do more than a small amount of exercise irregularly, especially if they have been training for years. Whether someone wants to compete or not is irrelevant, there are non competitors with physiques every bit as good as competitors, and they train every bit as hard. Don't confuse natural and untested competition or training. They are two completely different beasts.

 

[Repacked]

I don't see a problem trying to be the best you can be. Elite or otherwise.

Yes.

 

[Bazza20]

So since we are talking about what's not optimal. Ive got a couple days away and today doing some weights while sipping vodka and monster in my drink bottle. Russian weightlifting program.

Figure it's better than no exercise at all.

 

[steveP]

I don't eat anything and everything. I eat to my calorie and macro targets. 95% of my meals are home cooked meals, not that it matters. If I'm out somewhere I'll allow for what I feel like at the time. I love how people try and make out there is something magically bad for you about eating Macca's but if I ate a burger at a hippy health food store with the same ingredients it would be ok.


I train in the morning. If you think by morning time you have no fuel after a big meal from the night before you are mistaken. Digestion takes a long time. In any case I've trained in the morning "fasted" for probably over 5 years. Never effected me, if anything I feel and train better.


Your 25% claim is absolute fairyland stuff. If you are correct I should see some significant muscle loss if I continue this for a couple months. Haha. The bulk of human nutrition "ideals" is all a grey area. We don't know exactly what is ideal because it's so hard to do controlled studies in humans. We can't lock people up and feed various diets for their lifetime and compare results of different diets.

We know certain farm animal nutrition down to the ideal grams per day and ratios of various amino acids for ideal muscle growth, even with the comparative ease of researching farm animal diets compared to humans we are still finding out how much we don't know about what is ideal for them.

I'm not competing, I don't care about the maybe 1% shit. Ideal of 30g of protein per meal. Haha. Hello the 90s called.

Maybe it wasn't clear then, but from what I understood, you were eating once a day to allow daily cheat meals in that single feeding a day. You just listed maccas, KFC, etc as your regular food intake. And like I said, it will work controlling appetite and weight. However I don't think you'll find anyone say that approach is ideal for gains.

I'm simply going off recent studies I've been researching where frequency is the key to gains. In both terms of training and eating. I agree that a constant drip feed of protein is not ideal either. The purpose of approx 30g of protein in a meal is that you need that amount after a period of no protein to elicit MPS. If you have a drip feed, you'll never achieve that either. But you're doing the other extreme; one massive peak and one massive valley. I think we can all agree that extremes are not the answer.

What number would you put on the worst possible eating approach vs the best? I simply gave a ballpark figure of 25%. It might not be that high, but there certainly is a significant number.

 

[Goosey]

What is this hobbyist I keep hearing about? Someone that wants to be their best, assuming that means put on maximum muscle or be as strong as possible has to do more than a small amount of exercise irregularly, especially if they have been training for years. Whether someone wants to compete or not is irrelevant, there are non competitors with physiques every bit as good as competitors, and they train every bit as hard. Don't confuse natural and untested competition or training. They are two completely different beasts.

Opinions will vary