Post up what you are eating V2.0

[showdownhero]

Sorry, this is another one of those times where I'm going to side with the scientists and experts in their respective fields than people on an internet forum.

Did you listen to the podcast? The studies shows that 30g of protein is the sweet spot for MPS, regardless of body weight. So the 30g myth has sort of come full circle.
The second point is that there were no benefits above 40g. So if you're only eating one meal a day you only have one opportunity of maximal MPS. Where someone who breaks their meals up to 3 or more has way more potential. And of course you need to give your body the appropriate stimulus to require maximal MPS. A lot of people assume that calories equal muscle gain, then half-ass their training.

I'm not disputing the impact on MPS, I'm disputing how important MPS is to hypertrophy

There is absolutely no scientific link between improved MPS and improved hypertrophy or muscle performance, like I said in theory there should be but nothing has been proven or shown definitively

I'm not defending what baz is doing but to claim optimal MPS and protein timing is a 25% impact on anything to do with training or diet is absurd

 

[steveP]

I've posted a nice little concise podcast and linked the studies, but people ignore this and deny there are studies. I guess ignorance protects people's values, even if it does them a disservice.

Ok, I'm saying that 30g of protein 5x a day is optimal (as does the science). What would you suggest would be the inverse? For the same amount of calories and protein, what would be the most inefficient diet? I certainly would say one massive meal once a day. Not only is this inefficient for your body, but mentally you're going to have a very unhealthy relationship with food.

Building muscle and losing fat is a balance of peaks and valleys. When you eat you gain muscle and fat (simplified). When you train you break down muscle, and when you're not eating you're breaking down fat. To be optimal you want to smooth the peaks and valleys out.

Like I originally said, this is probably the best way to control weight and appetite. But there's a big difference in approaches to losing fat and gaining muscle.

 

[Repacked]

I'm not disputing the impact on MPS, I'm disputing how important MPS is to hypertrophy

There is absolutely no scientific link between improved MPS and improved hypertrophy or muscle performance, like I said in theory there should be but nothing has been proven or shown definitively

I'm not defending what baz is doing but to claim optimal MPS and protein timing is a 25% impact on anything to do with training or diet is absurd

How can myofibrillar hypertrophy occur without MPS?

 

[showdownhero]

I've posted a nice little concise podcast and linked the studies, but people ignore this and deny there are studies. I guess ignorance protects people's values, even if it does them a disservice.

Ok, I'm saying that 30g of protein 5x a day is optimal (as does the science). What would you suggest would be the inverse? For the same amount of calories and protein, what would be the most inefficient diet? I certainly would say one massive meal once a day. Not only is this inefficient for your body, but mentally you're going to have a very unhealthy relationship with food.

Building muscle and losing fat is a balance of peaks and valleys. When you eat you gain muscle and fat (simplified). When you train you break down muscle, and when you're not eating you're breaking down fat. To be optimal you want to smooth the peaks and valleys out.

Like I originally said, this is probably the best way to control weight and appetite. But there's a big difference in approaches to losing fat and gaining muscle.

Don't get smug with me, I've agreed that protein timing is important to MPS all I've done is point out the gaping hole in the scientific literature/knowledge on the link between improved MPS and improved muscle hypertrophy/performance. Are you too simple to understand that?

Now unless you can post some scientific literature showing a link between improved MPS protein timing and hypertrophy you can stop acting like an arrogant dick head.

Do you stand by your post that protein timing and MPS makes up 25% of importance in training and diet outcomes?

How can myofibrillar hypertrophy occur without MPS?

of course not

 

[showdownhero]

Also just for the record I've seen/read/watched A LOT of Trommelen's work (including that podcast). I find information on MPS to be extremely interesting and do my best to juggle the benefits of fasting and MPS even though they have some conflicting requirements.

 

[steveP]

Don't get smug with me, I've agreed that protein timing is important to MPS all I've done is point out the gaping hole in the scientific literature/knowledge on the link between improved MPS and improved muscle hypertrophy/performance. Are you too simple to understand that?

Now unless you can post some scientific literature showing a link between improved MPS protein timing and hypertrophy you can stop acting like an arrogant dick head.

Do you stand by your post that protein timing and MPS makes up 25% of importance in training and diet outcomes?

Whoa, that escalated quickly. Calm down dude.

I never said protein timing is 25% of all training and diet. I said it would make 25% difference to the intermittent fasting approach bazza is using, as in my opinion that is the worst case scenario.

Why does everything have to be one extreme or the other? Carbs are the devil or fats are unicorn jizz. Intermittent fasting is the secret key to unlock god mode and eating regularly means you should give up lifting.

 

[Darkoz]

Experience trumps any studies and I believe that Bazza is speaking from experience
None of us here are professional athletes so most that study mumbo jumbo matters not

 

[steveP]

Great attitude. Strive for nothing and be average.

 

[Darkoz]

Great attitude. Strive for nothing and be average.

Don't be a numbskull steviepee
Tell me, are you 90kg beef cake with 5% body fat?
Are you a pro athlete?
Have you experimented over many years and found what works for you and discarded what doesn't?
You keep missing the whole point.

 

[Big Mick]

Great attitude. Strive for nothing and be average.

You probably need another 10-15kg of muscle to reach average, so plenty of work needed yet.

To be honest none of this stuff matters much, your body is smarter than this (or better evolved), if you needed to eat 30 grams of protein every 3hrs and 27 minutes precisely, we would have died out as a species a long time ago.

 

[steveP]

Don't be a numbskull steviepee
Tell me, are you 90kg beef cake with 5% body fat?
Are you a pro athlete?
Have you experimented over many years and found what works for you and discarded what doesn't?
You keep missing the whole point.

So only the elite should use elite/optimal training methods? If there's evidence that one method works better than another, be it 1% or 20%, I'll use the method that works best and is more efficient.

 

[showdownhero]

Whoa, that escalated quickly. Calm down dude.

I never said protein timing is 25% of all training and diet. I said it would make 25% difference to the intermittent fasting approach bazza is using, as in my opinion that is the worst case scenario.

Why does everything have to be one extreme or the other? Carbs are the devil or fats are unicorn jizz. Intermittent fasting is the secret key to unlock god mode and eating regularly means you should give up lifting.

There's no evidence to support your hypothesis that eating evenly spaced meals vs eating all your calories in 1 meal makes 1% of difference (that's real difference in hypertrophy/muscle performance outcomes, not just MPS ) let alone 25%.

I don't think what baz is doing makes sense and I think there's enough smoke (i.e. where there's smoke there's fire) to suggest that MPS is something anyone serious about lifting should be conscious of. Not to mention that if he's getting 100% of his calories from fast food on a certain day that would be creating some micro nutrient deficiencies.

I'm not putting things in extremes by the way at the end of the day total macro and micro nutrient consumption is what is most important (proven by scientific literature) and the best nutrient timing is the timing that allows you to stick to a diet in the long term and achieve results.

I would never argue that IF or high fat diets are suitable for everyone and the silver bullet of nutrition.

 

[Darkoz]

So only the elite should use elite/optimal training methods? If there's evidence that one method works better than another, be it 1% or 20%, I'll use the method that works best and is more efficient.

Ah forget about it but to answer your question, the way an "elite" athlete trains/eats has zero bearing on anyone here

 

[steveP]

You probably need another 10-15kg of muscle to reach average, so plenty of work needed yet.

To be honest none of this stuff matters much, your body is smarter than this (or better evolved), if you needed to eat 30 grams of protein every 3hrs and 27 minutes precisely, we would have died out as a species a long time ago.

10-15kg at my height and body weight would put me at a Fat Free Mass Index well over any natural limit. Is there a point to your post, or more verbal diarrhoea?

Again, you miss the point of survival vs optimal. Human don't need carbs or regular meals to survive. But if you want to maximise hypertrophy and you have such an oversimplified and uneducated attitude, you'll be forever spinning your wheels with no real results.


This really is an odd forum. It's meant to be about bodybuilding and training, but when legit methods are discussed, no one can have an intelligent debate.

 

[showdownhero]

So only the elite should use elite/optimal training methods? If there's evidence that one method works better than another, be it 1% or 20%, I'll use the method that works best and is more efficient.

I had this out with baz a week or so ago. There's absolutely nothing wrong with average joes using the tactics of the so called elites to achieve the optimal performance.

And anyone who tells you any differently is a dick head.

 

[steveP]

I had this out with baz a week or so ago. There's absolutely nothing wrong with average joes using the tactics of the so called elites to achieve the optimal performance.

And anyone who tells you any differently is a dick head.

Yes it is weird. It's almost like a race to see who can take the defeated "you'll be unsuccessful like me" moral high ground. I think age plays a big factor where many have accepted their average results and feel others will end up at the same point regardless.

 

[Big Mick]

10-15kg at my height and body weight would put me at a Fat Free Mass Index well over any natural limit. Is there a point to your post, or more verbal diarrhoea?

Again, you miss the point of survival vs optimal. Human don't need carbs or regular meals to survive. But if you want to maximise hypertrophy and you have such an oversimplified and uneducated attitude, you'll be forever spinning your wheels with no real results.


This really is an odd forum. It's meant to be about bodybuilding and training, but when legit methods are discussed, no one can have an intelligent debate.

Love how you call people uneducated, when you are the master of uneducated, you don't even understand basic concepts of nutrition or training, which is evident by your training log and posts on this forum and you generally miss the point all together, most of your stuff is based on monkey see monkey do rather than any understanding on why monkey do.

So basically what Bazza is doing is intermitted fasting, some of the main benefits of IF include increased Human growth hormone is some cases 5 times above normal levels resulting in increased fat loss and muscle gains, ie body recomposition (scientifically proven fact), increased insulin sensitivity, making fat stores more accessible and increasing muscle gains (scientifically proven fact), increased cellular repairs, and cellular cleansing (scientifically proven fact), increased immune system and immune response causing changes in genes related to longevity and disease resistance (and you guessed it scientifically proven fact)

These are only SOME of the benefits. So it might be time to educate yourself rather than calling the already educated uneducated.

 

[steveP]

Are you trying to sell an IF book? Those were pulled from someone selling a IF diet, as the only thing you missed is that it cures cancer.

If it's the holy grail of diets, why isn't everyone on it, including yourself? Like all fad diets, it's no practical in the real world.

I hope you realise that those claims come from bias studies with small sample sizes, looking for the results that sell. You know, the exact same reason you're against BCAAs and anything else that comes from a sup store. Or is it that you're on team BCAAs this month?

 

[Big Mick]

Yes it is weird. It's almost like a race to see who can take the defeated "you'll be unsuccessful like me" moral high ground. I think age plays a big factor where many have accepted their average results and feel others will end up at the same point regardless.

LMAO, by the time I was your age, I had trained world class athletes, and travelled the US as well as Asia and NZ wearing the green and gold representing Australia. Made a good living and bought my first house and travelled the world from personal training international competing athletes before you even shit your first nappy, so you would be doing well to achieve half the thing I have in your lifetime in your chosen sport.

 

[Big Mick]

Are you trying to sell an IF book? Those were pulled from someone selling a IF diet, as the only thing you missed is that it cures cancer.

If it's the holy grail of diets, why isn't everyone on it, including yourself? Like all fad diets, it's no practical in the real world.

I hope you realise that those claims come from bias studies with small sample sizes, looking for the results that sell. You know, the exact same reason you're against BCAAs and anything else that comes from a sup store. Or is it that you're on team BCAAs this month?

Sup stores don't sell IF diets, and IF dieters don't use sup stores, again you are confused.

How do you know what I do?? You have no clue what I do or have done.

IF is probably the least of a fad diet, it's how people ate for millions of years, it's how our bodies are designed to work, so if it's a fad it had lasted a few hundred thousand years.

How is it not practical in a real world but having exactly 30 grams of protein perfectly timed in 6 meals is practical in real life?? Makes perfect sense to no one.

Again you are the master of bias studies and information getting your nutritional advice from supplement store managers.