Changing from starting stength

[bradsky]

he said he didn't care about getting stronger, and he feels he's neglecting his upper body....

why the hell is he doing SS to begin with.

I love how everyone who hasn't lifted before MUST do SS, or else their spines will turn in to jelly and they will never gain any muscle.

I have learnt how to lift from SS, It's awesome. but it's not magical. Why not let someone do what they want without shitting on them for being a noob?

I'm sure he will hit the lifting targets everyone is pushing if he stays true to the program, but he will get there one day.. what's the rush?

grow some arms have fun. I couldn't imagine doing 4 exercises for 6 months because a bunch of people on the internet told me to, when your goal is to look good...


AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!


end rant.

 

[Bazza20]

Problem is beginners might think they know what they need to do to get where they want but they don't.

If arm specilisation programs worked for beginners every gym would be full of teenage boys with big arms, I'm not seeing it.

 

[Brick]

he said he didn't care about getting stronger, and he feels he's neglecting his upper body....

why the hell is he doing SS to begin with.

I love how everyone who hasn't lifted before MUST do SS, or else their spines will turn in to jelly and they will never gain any muscle.

I have learnt how to lift from SS, It's awesome. but it's not magical. Why not let someone do what they want without shitting on them for being a noob?

I'm sure he will hit the lifting targets everyone is pushing if he stays true to the program, but he will get there one day.. what's the rush?

grow some arms have fun. I couldn't imagine doing 4 exercises for 6 months because a bunch of people on the internet told me to, when your goal is to look good...


AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!


end rant.

The worst things noobs do is chop and change programmes because they aren't seeing gains and/or they don't think the programme is working.

The programme isn't the key to getting big or strong, it's consistencey. Stick with it and it will work. Chop and change every couple months you will get shitty gains. This has nothing to do with splits for bb vs all over for PL. Read his op he is struggling to get in the gym for two days a week you really think he will magically become consistent cause he is doing a split. Starting strength is the perfect programme for him. Noobs grew because they are noobs not cause they do some magical programme written by Dorian Yates.

FFS you suggested the bb.com 6 weeks to sick arms programme, what a joke.

 

[bradsky]

Problem is beginners might think they know what they need to do to get where they want but they don't.

If arm specilisation programs worked for beginners every gym would be full of teenage boys with big arms, I'm not seeing it.

ok, from what I have seen... people that I have trained with, beginners alike, have exploded in size, changing things up all the time.

I haven't trained with anyone doing SS or any other strength program, so I can't compare results.

So I can't really argue if there results (in size gains) are better...

the reason I do the "arm specialisation program" is that it only lasts 6 weeks and it is variety and value adding.

The worst things noobs do is chop and change programmes because they aren't seeing gains and/or they don't think the programme is working.

The programme isn't the key to getting big or strong, it's consistencey. Stick with it and it will work. Chop and change every couple months you will get shitty gains. This has nothing to do with splits for bb vs all over for PL. Read his op he is struggling to get in the gym for two days a week you really think he will magically become consistent cause he is doing a split. Starting strength is the perfect programme for him. Noobs grew because they are noobs not cause they do some magical programme written by Dorian Yates.

FFS you suggested the bb.com 6 weeks to sick arms programme, what a joke.

If someone wants strength, they should probably stick to the same program for years.

If someone wants size, the best thing they can do is change, and change often...

I suggested half a dozen programs with different rep ranges and focuses

I see the best results from the first month or 2 of a program, I find switching it up all the time or choosing a program with variety yields the best gains (for me).

I just want people to understand that there are lots of different options out there,

that is all.

 

[Brick]

Enlighten us Brad - How big are you height, weight, measurements? What are your lifts? Are you sure changing things up is paying dividends for you. Aren't you the poster that was using the 70kg bb as a benchmark in another thread on training.

Consistency is the key, not mixing up your programmes endlessly.

 

[bradsky]

sigh.. forget it..

 

[Darkoz]

As I understand it and have read from Jonesy's post, he said he can train Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, that's 4 days, so starting with an upper/lower body split is a perfectly valid method for his goals.

No doubt the SS programme gets results if you like chasing numbers however it's not the only game in town, nor should it be.

 

[Jonesy40]

ok i may have got a bit confused with what i have been doing by calling it starting strength. it is Fadi's begginers work out as listed below.

A. Squats
B. Bench press
C. Dead lift
D. One arm d/bell rows
E. D/bell presses or B/bell military presses.

All done at 3 sets for between 8-10 reps. Aim to increase your weights by 2.5% each week and do this program for 3 months solid before contemplating a change.

Darkoz is correct i can train mon/tue/wed/thursday.

Im not trying to find a shortcut to size and i am prepared to do my time on the basics, i just wish to find a program that can work for me on the days i can train. currently what i am doing does not fit in with my work and lifestyle so looking to find something that does.

 

[IRON TANKS]

The truth is you can "look good" (aesthetics) on a strength based program or otherwise as diet is really the key factor.

However for body composition and hypertrophy 8-12 reps with less rest (45-60 sec) is better than 1-6 reps with 2-3 minutes in between. If you're looking for them, you'll find outliers. (Ie; shredded 1-5 rep fellas and pudgy 8-12 reppers and vice versa). But for the greater majority, the aforementioned rings true.

They're not mutually exclusive though. You can gain strength doing 8-12 reps and vice versa. When you train in either rep range with the associated rest you're just emphasizing one or the other.

Don't let anyone spew their dogma on you. Try it out for yourself, and see how your body responds. I've trained across all rep ranges for over 10 years (and hundreds of others) (1-20 reps) with very little variance in diet. 8-12 has yielded the best physique for me when I was BB'ing more seriously.

 

[McKwl]

If you can't do Saturdays or Sundays, maybe try an upper/lower or push/pull alternating (A: Mon/Wed and B: Tue/Thu).

Or you can do SS (or another full body program) twice a week - it's not ideal, but apparently it'll still work. Monday and Thursday would be the best config for this, I reckon.

The push/pull would probably be what I'd go for in your situation (if you can't do weekend days at all).

 

[Jonesy40]

ok well going to try the following for 8 weeks and see how i go. please give input.

Full body (monday/wednesday)
Squat
flat bench
deads
MP

Upper Tuesday/thursday
Widegrip pull down
closegrip pull down
incline db fly
incline db press
1 arm rows
dips
bicep curl

all exercises done 3x10-12 reps.

 

[Brick]

ok well going to try the following for 8 weeks and see how i go. please give input.

Full body (monday/wednesday)
Squat
flat bench
deads
MP

Upper Tuesday/thursday
Widegrip pull down
closegrip pull down
incline db fly
incline db press
1 arm rows
dips
bicep curl

all exercises done 3x10-12 reps.

Your going to hit chest four times a week?

8 weeks is a very short time to stick to any programme. If you really insist on doing a split find a proper programme with progression laid out. What is your plan to just go balls to the wall every set for 10-12 reps??

 

[Jonesy40]

well this is the problem i have i am really not sure what i should be doing and have looked at some many programs over the last few days i keep getting confused.

Brick you seem to know your stuff could you recommend a routine that could work for me.

 

[Brick]

well this is the problem i have i am really not sure what i should be doing and have looked at some many programs over the last few days i keep getting confused.

Brick you seem to know your stuff could you recommend a routine that could work for me.

I am no expert mate. However i am a exceedingly generous so instead of bagging the shit out of you in your thread if you pm me your email I will send you some e-books and programmes to look over, decide for yourself what tickles your fancy.

Honestly thought the PTC beginners programme on here or starting strength is the best type of programme you can do given where your lifts are, and please don't think I am having a go at your lifts hell we were all there once.

My logic is if you are going to run a programme do something written by an accomplished coach that has some form of progression written into it.

 

[Jonesy40]

PM sent.

 

[nazzysmith]

well this is the problem i have i am really not sure what i should be doing and have looked at some many programs over the last few days i keep getting confused.

Brick you seem to know your stuff could you recommend a routine that could work for me.

Here mate follow this...


Do upper body twice a week...

Do legs once a week...

Upper body (Mon/Thurs - Note that Thurs uses different variations)

Flat bench barbell / Flat bench dumbell
Dips / Incline Bench
Cable rows / One arm rows
Chins / Pull ups
MP/ Side and front laterals
Bicep curl pick one you like
Tricep press pick one you like

Tuesday
Squat
SLDL
Leg machines (what ever you like)
Calve raises
Abs if you like doing this


No need to complicate things... just keep it simple...

Upper body twice a week (Mon/ Thurs ) leaves 2 rest days then 3 rest days...
2 chest ex
2 back ex
1 shoulder ex
1 bicep ex
1 tricep ex

Lower body(Tues) Can repat Friday but not neccessary as your busy
Squat
Plus stuff

This will keep you going for a long while...
Good Luck

 

[solarbear]

Suggestions:

5/3/1 Boring but Big http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_boring_but_big_3month_challenge (since you will still be getting noob gains increase the weights by double when you get 10+ reps on the 5 week or 6+ reps on the 3 week). Program is designed around a 4 day workout. Strength Standards Most blokes swap the BBB work and do the 5x10 bench with OHP and 5x10 squat with DL and visa versa and so on.

Similar program that they gave me when I played football and worked for lots of blokes:

Day 1
Bench **
Overhead Press **
Power Clean
Row

Day 2
Squat **
Stiff-leg deads **
Lunges
Row

Use an online chart to calculate your maxes.
** Size Wave - 65, 70, 75% x 10
** Strength Wave - 75, 80, 85% x5
Waves go 2 weeks of each, 3 weeks of each, 4 weeks of each. So you start with 2 size then do 2 strength and so on...
Power Cleans are 5 sets of 3 same as SS all the time.
Rows and lunges do 50 reps of whatever. I might suggest chins on leg day and rows on upper day.

First 2 days of the week do the 3 sets. Second 2 days same as before but only do 2 sets using the lower weights 65, 70 or 75, 80. Sort of a heavy/light philosophy. Worked for lots of on my College Football team gaining both size and strength. I put nearly 50lbs on my bench in 1 year (think I did 120kg x9 at testing) and because my squat form was shit stuck to reps for squats and still could squat 160kg x 10.

Waves come in different durations. 2 weeks of each, then 3 weeks, then 4 weeks... then back to 2 week cycle and start again.

Note you probably won't be able to do 10 reps on the 75% at first... expect 6 or 7 at first.
Note you can test for maxes on the days with only 2 sets.

 

[Jonesy40]

Here mate follow this...


Do upper body twice a week...

Do legs once a week...

Upper body (Mon/Thurs - Note that Thurs uses different variations)

Flat bench barbell / Flat bench dumbell
Dips / Incline Bench
Cable rows / One arm rows
Chins / Pull ups
MP/ Side and front laterals
Bicep curl pick one you like
Tricep press pick one you like

Tuesday
Squat
SLDL
Leg machines (what ever you like)
Calve raises
Abs if you like doing this


No need to complicate things... just keep it simple...

Upper body twice a week (Mon/ Thurs ) leaves 2 rest days then 3 rest days...
2 chest ex
2 back ex
1 shoulder ex
1 bicep ex
1 tricep ex

Lower body(Tues) Can repat Friday but not neccessary as your busy
Squat
Plus stuff

This will keep you going for a long while...
Good Luck

this is exactly what i was hoping for when i posted this thread something like this. any recommendation on on sets and reps?

also big thanks to Brick for the info he has emailed me.

 

[nazzysmith]

this is exactly what i was hoping for when i posted this thread something like this. any recommendation on on sets and reps?

also big thanks to Brick for the info he has emailed me.

Start with 3 sets of 10

As some excercises get heavier 3 x 8

For Squat and flat bench barbell progress to 5x5

Just do what feels good... If you don't like a particular excercise just switch it with another one...

After a few weeks you'll find a combo of excercises that suit you and your gym equipement...

 

[solarbear]

TBH I think your nuts if your not squatting more than once a week as a beginner.