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Over training/Under training

But what about a program written by a body builder that is in competition?

Thats actually worked for me. Obviously diet etc has helped but the workout's ive used havent exacly not helped me grow. My workouts are pretty simple.
its working so why would i change it? Cause someone else says its wrong? When it works?

72 kgs to 90 kgs.

Big changed in a couple years.
 
Bodybuilders in competition usually dont worry about programs because they're on drugs. I wish I was exaggerating to you but im not. Steroids make this a totally different equation - ever heard of a steroid user suffering erectile dysfunction like most naturals do come competition time? I bet you haven't.

Most of the good natural use periodisation. Layne Norton is an example of a bodybuilder with his head screwed on. A lot of the guys coming out of Doggcrapp and ironaddicts are also getting amazing results.

I've seen your pictures, they are impressive, but whether you like it or not there are more effective ways of organizing your programming.

Curious why do you see strength/hypertrophy as some massive divide? couldn't you do a program like 5/3/1 and simply organise assistance work to what you think is appropriate?
 
But why do 5-3-1 ? whats it going to change for me?
To me it doesnt seem as much of a workout? when in this thread ive been asking about drop set's, supersets and other methods people use to make their workouts more intense.

I go the gym do my workout and leave.
i dont stand around for 4-5 hours and socialise and talk about training with dudes etc etc like alot of people do.
I dont think theres a divide. Obviously ive gained strength and it helped me.

I just dont see how your magical method(everyone has a different theory) is going to change anything for me? Cause one guy says it on one site its right?

Tried alot of things. what ive been onto recently has made my muscle definition more even.
Always think the ask advice. Try it out, if it doent work. try something else method is the best for me.

I just came here to ask if anyone does anything along the lines of drop sets etc.
Wanted to see the results from people.
 
You asked about overtraining.

This is how periodisation works. When you train you basically tear your muscles. You don't go to the gym for a few days (or a week, w/e) and the muscle recovers stronger. Problem is when you get stronger it isnt that simple - fatigue (think overtraining) accumulates over weeks and even months as opposed to day to day, session to session.

What 5/3/1 etc offer is that the load is varied week to week so your not maxing all the time. This allows you to fatigue, recover and supercompensate past a basic level which will help you get bigger and stronger.

Use your head - how many people do you know who are small and can bench 220kg? you could think of some anomalies but not many. This is because the squat, bench, deadlift and overhead press work pretty much all of the bodies musculature, you know that from your own experience bodybuilding. I'm not saying that a guy who benches 180kg will be bigger than a guy who benches 200kg but if YOU are stronger than you are now and your diet is in check you will get bigger, its that simple.

Why don't you check out some of the logs on elitefts? they now have a number of bodybuilders, most train with block periodisation or other forms.

Nobody is here to trick you man or to ride on what you're passionate about. We want to help you get as big and strong as you can. Unfortunately until you learn to maximise your strength gains and how to program beyond 'try this for 6 weeks and then try that' you'll always be on the tip of the iceburg.
 
yeh but what im saying is this is working now... What i was asking is adding little bit extra to workout's and when adding extra sets and rep's etc will become to much.

I like going the gym and sweating etc. Doing 5,3 and 1 i know that i wont feel like ive evn worked out. Ill barely break a sweat.

Yeh ill lift heavy and yeah but it wont be as much as a workout as i do with my current training.

Right now im strong
Do all the bassics plus some and its working.

then when it stops working ill change some of it and see if that works.
 
drain said:
no what i mean is im not looking to change my workout as far as excersizes go.
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To achieve your goals, it may be necessary to change your workout. Saying, "I want to get stronger [or whatever] but I don't want to change my exercises" is like saying, "I want to lose weight, but I don't want to change my diet." It's not going to work.
so many theories..
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These aren't theories. People here have lifted a lot of weight and changed their bodies. I quite literally make my living with the advice I give people, it's tested and shown to work. You can reject it if you want, it's your body, you have to do the work and live with the results. Up to you.

You are undertraining, You need to work out your whole body 2 or more times each week with basic compound movements, no fucking about with splits and isolation work. Whether this leads to your getting bigger muscles depends on whether you eat properly or not.
I like going the gym and sweating etc. Doing 5,3 and 1 i know that i wont feel like ive evn worked out. Ill barely break a sweat.
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Not speaking for 5/3/1 in particular, since I believe that most likely you need something more basic. However, you shouldn't assume something is easy until you've tried it.

i seen most dudes on here. Alot of flabby looking ****s who are no doubt strong but yeh thats not what im totally looking for.
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I think that you will not find much help from people if you begin by insulting them. I mean, nobody is going to run off and have a sook or ask for you to be banned, this isn't an American forum, after all (which is why you didn't need to **** out profanity - we don't give a fuck). But they'll be less inclined to help you.
 
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right now
my bench amount is big
oh press is decent
deadlifts are getting bigger
squats are getting bigger.


I do 4 day split.

7-8 reps and its working.

You say the other method is tried and tested. No doubt it is.
But what im doing is tried and tested on me and its working? so whats the big deal?

I eat big
i lift big

Plus yeh i have to work and live with results? that are working? so that statement is kinda silly

I do all the basic and then ad some more.
 
Just out of curiousity, what are you lifting on the big 3? I know you have bb goals and train for aesthetics.
 
Matt when was the last time the weights moved significantly (eg you put another disc on the squat)? also have you ever considered long term the results of some of the exercises? skullcrushers and concentration curls are all fine now when your joints are moist but in the future when they're mostly scar tissue how do you plan on training?
 
I'm a "flabby looking fuck" so am probably speaking out of turn but I do lat pull downs (as bench assistance), I use drop sets, I use rest pause.....everything has its place, it all depends on the goal.

drain, if it aint broke don't fix it....
 
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People who still argue that BB splits don't work are floggin a dead horse.

They work. If you aren't a fan - don't do it. But you're in a BB forum (populated mostly by people who are more interested in powerlifting and strength) trying to sell strength routines to people who want hypertrophy.
They're not mutually exclusive and strength gains can definitely help size gains, but in general what you train for is what you get. The OP has trained for lean mass gains with a BB hypertrophy program, and guess what? He got em.
Dude's got good lifts, has put on heaps of weight, is happy with his results and program, and asked about overtraining - which we've all since concluded is not happening.
I don't get the obsession with trying to convert the man.
 
nah man.. you gotta do this cause i said so.
Blah blah blah.

Split training doesnt work. Cause i read it doesnt on this site. read this dudes blog cause he knows everything there is to know.

What you are doing is working but its wrong. Cause i said so
 
And the Ugly said:
People who still argue that BB splits don't work are floggin a dead horse.

They work. If you aren't a fan - don't do it. But you're in a BB forum (populated mostly by people who are more interested in powerlifting and strength) trying to sell strength routines to people who want hypertrophy.
They're not mutually exclusive and strength gains can definitely help size gains, but in general what you train for is what you get. The OP has trained for lean mass gains with a BB hypertrophy program, and guess what? He got em.
Dude's got good lifts, has put on heaps of weight, is happy with his results and program, and asked about overtraining - which we've all since concluded is not happening.
I don't get the obsession with trying to convert the man.
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Usually I wouldn't but the guy is Crafter. He sings in two of my favourite bands since I was 16 and helped get the third where they are now. If he asked me to borrow $50 tomorrow I'd do that too.
 
hahhaha thanks oliver.

But anyways what im saying mate is what works for you u. works for you.

This works for me. You know the difference in my size. When i was in iktpq i was a skinny vegan person. 67-72 kgs depending if we were on tour in the states or not hahahaha.

Now up around 90 kgs. So far its huge gains.

Eating fuckloads of meat, veg and training.
Splits worked for me
My lifts are getting bigger

So whats really the problem?
 
Curious why did you decide to change from being vegan?

There is none really. I think that periodised programs are an effective way of ensuring progress and avoiding overtraining (what you seem worried about). They also make you much more aware of your limits because the loading/peaking cycles feel very different.

At the end of the day though its your choice man I'm just putting it out there. Might be something you consider next time you stall.
 
drain said:
Its getting to a point where im not sure how much more strength ill gain.
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drain said:
My lifts are getting bigger

So whats really the problem?
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Again a contradiction.

"I'm not gaining as much strength as I want."
"Well then perhaps you should change your routine."
"Nah I don't want to change my routine."
"Then your strength won't improve."
"Oh but it is improving enough."

Until you resolve these contradictions in what you're telling us, there's nothing we can say or do for you. These words, along with your changing your workout every 6-8 weeks, show a very muddled approach to things. Typically those with muddled approaches go only so far and then get stuck. They then ask others for help, reject the help offered, and stay stuck.

Good-bye.
 
I don't see why the drain can't just keep doing what he's doing.
If you're getting results you're satisfied with, and enjoying your training, then no need to change anything.
A change may hurt your results if you don't enjoy that style of training.
Your current routine is obviously working for you as already stated.

You're always going to have high and low energy days, nobody's life is perfectly stable all the time.
Maybe thats why your workouts feel easier some days and harder on others.
 
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