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Over training/Under training

Don't stop increasing the weights. Don't stop increasing your food intake to match the extra work and weight you want to hold.

Lots of people do drop sets but they're more a sometimes kind of thing than an every set kind of thing.

You're nowhere near your potential - stick with the basics and you'll keep growing.
 
Hang on, we are in the bodybuilding forum aren't we?
Lat pulldowns are a relevent exercise used to great effect by everybody from Ronnie Coleman to my old mate Dave down the road.
And reducing his work sets to one or two after taking a week off certainly isn't going to improve growth if he does it for long- that was a myth perpetuated by Mike Mentzer that has never really held true for many people.
The OP has not actually said he is overtraining - he's mostly just questioning what it is, and from what he's said, it's more likely he just needs better nutrition or sleep or to suck it up and keep training.

I see twits like you come and go.
You are wrong on most things you say.
 
what im doing so far is working. Ive gained a large amount of weight.
not really looking at advice as far as workout goes.
My diet/training methods have worked.. Just wondering if people have the same thing.

Its getting to a point where im not sure how much more strength ill gain.
Not saying im lifting super crazy amounts. But its solid amounts compared to past
So whats next kinda thing?
You have a contradiction here, which I have helpfully bolded for you. You don't want advice, but you want advice.

You must choose which you want, until then there's nothing we can do except sit and watch Ugly and Silverback have a pissing match and hope we don't get splashed by accident. .
 
You have a contradiction here, which I have helpfully bolded for you. You don't want advice, but you want advice.

You must choose which you want, until then there's nothing we can do except sit and watch Ugly and Silverback have a pissing match and hope we don't get splashed by accident. .

Kyle, I'm not into having "pissing matches" with some person over the net.

I'll discuss, yes.
 
Wait, what just happened ?

Things seem to be getting heated quite quickly of late. Why the biffo?

I've learnt a lot since coming on this site, keep the good advice coming guys.
 
FWIW I reckon the lat pulldown is a fairly good exercise to complement other back work.

Sunday night I did 5 sets of pullups followed by 3 sets of lat pulldown and my back has felt strong like granite since...great DOMS feeling, if that makes any sense....love the feeling
 
Oh wow, I should have just kept my mouth shut about the lat pulldown. The op used it as an example of exercise he might want to do drop sets or more sets on. All I meant is that it is a poor exercise to do more on. 3x8-10 and gtfo. Don't overthink it. Everything you do should have a purpose.

To the op, you look great man. Seriously, keep doing what works for you, because it won't be the same for the next guy etc.
 
Easy tiger, I wasn't having a go. I'm no training guru, I'm just sharing my personal experiences is all.

I agree drain is looking solid, good work champ.
 
You have a contradiction here, which I have helpfully bolded for you. You don't want advice, but you want advice.

You must choose which you want, until then there's nothing we can do except sit and watch Ugly and Silverback have a pissing match and hope we don't get splashed by accident. .


no what i mean is im not looking to change my workout as far as excersizes go.
i seen most dudes on here. Alot of flabby looking ****s who are no doubt strong but yeh thats not what im totally looking for.

Yes ive had strength gains etc.

What im asking is do people do drop sets, super sets etc
ive never really bothered but lately ive noticed even when adding weight i still dont feel as sore as some other days i work out..
 
I'm going to suggest that you either a) do something different recovery wise on the days you are sore eg eat or sleep less or b) you dont lift at 100% intensity every time you're in the gym so when you do put that fraction more effort in you feel it more after
 
QUOTE: "DOMS might conceivably serve as a warning to reduce muscle activity so as to prevent further injury. However, further activity temporarily alleviates the soreness, even though it causes more pain initially. Continued use of the sore muscle also has no adverse effect on recovery from DOMS and does not exacerbate muscle damage. It is therefore unlikely that DOMS is in fact a warning sign not to use the affected muscle"

"Although DOMS is a symptom associated with muscle damage, its magnitude does not necessarily reflect the magnitude of muscle damage."

Delayed onset muscle soreness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

now im not %100 sure if this is correct but if DOMS doesn't reflect the amount of muscle damage, shouldn't that mean that the "some days your sore some days your not" could just be that DOMS isn't reflecting the full extent of your workout and thereby not meaning u r training wrong?
(could be complete crap, im no professional and quotes... are from wiki.)
 
whats wrong with lat pulldowns?

cause its not
squats
bench
deadlifts

repeat

its wrong?

what im doing so far is working. Ive gained a large amount of weight.
not really looking at advice as far as workout goes.
My diet/training methods have worked.. Just wondering if people have the same thing.

Its getting to a point where im not sure how much more strength ill gain.
Not saying im lifting super crazy amounts. But its solid amounts compared to past
So whats next kinda thing?

Originally I typed up a response but this one fits in better:

Madcow2 said:
I'll go a step further and be flat out honest without holding back. This isn't directed at you by any means but it's a good long rant and an explantion that's a bit less PC than usual for me but might prove beneficial because I'll just lay it on the line and tell it like it is.

The typical split routines that have people training a bodypart once per week are - I would basically just recommend that everyone stop them right now and move on. They are so fundementally bad that it's not worth typing up an explanation for them - the whole reason why people arrived at this idea was because they didn't understand science and misapplied thinking that muscles needed to fully recover before training them again (look up the timeframe for complete tissue remodeling from a single bout of weight training - it's beyond a month as I recall but in any event it is far far longer than any of these splits allows for). These splits are a major reason why most people in the gym are spinning their wheels.

The other major issue is that most guys put together their split, choose exercises, and then just go in the gym and work hard at it (and some don't even do that) - even using the 5x5 exercises and split as laid out under the 3 day protocol that I recommend (basically the best exercises and a solid frequency pattern) there is a major issue that will inhibit gains. The issue is that volume and intensity are not being regulated over a period to provide a training stimulus - this is the essence of loading/deloading and managing volume under dual factor theory which I will say again is at the near universal acceptance level everywhere in the world at the highest levels of research and athletic coaching but curiously most BBers couldn't give and explanation should their life depend on it.

For a novice lifter this isn't a big deal, for an experienced lifter - they just won't progress or at least no where close to optimally and once they get past a point even that progress will stop. Basically, the only way an experienced lifter is going to get gains is to use drugs and create an environment where just about any stimulus will work because the body's response is so exagerated. That said, even the drugged lifter would progress much faster (or could use a lower dosage and achieve the same results) under a proper program.

Look at the pority of Needsize's 5x5 program. It uses good exercises albeit the 3 day split is present but the whole key is the progressive overload and systematically adding weight thereby increasing total volume. Also notice that stepping back and beginning again serves to deload. This is why people have success with it. There is no magic, it's basically just a rough form of dual factor training that he arrived at by paying attention to what worked over a period of time. If more people were applying some brain power basic training methodology wouldn't be so foreign.

It kills me that the majority of the BBing/fitness world is so advanced when it comes to drug usage and diet yet so far behind when it comes to training. Yes I've had training conversations with multiple pros and worked for months right next to a guy who got his pro card just a few months later - he was unfit to coach a highschool team, his PT clients made for progress, his training was no better or more intense than many others at the gym 1/2 his size - his diet/dedication was admirable but if not for the drugs he'd be just another shmoe around the gym wondering why he's plateaued. He's not an exception to the rule either, anyone who knows training and watches the vast majority of Pro BBers train knows they don't know anything in about 10 minutes and usually much faster. If they open their mouths on the subject it's nearly instantaneous. , look at the 1980's BBers training on nearly all machines and not squatting or DLing. They looked marvelous, way better than in the previous decade yet the training stimuli was garbage in comparison - the only difference were the dosages.

EDIT: Okay, I do give props to Chris Duffy (pro back in the early 1990's for getting people to DL again by speaking out a lot on its effectiveness).

BBing is almost totally focused on optimizing and increasing the response (drugs/diet) rather than ensuring that the highest quality stimulus (training) is applied. This is why kids and men get frustrated after tweaking their diets and taking all kinds of supplements yet getting little gains - they look at the programs some of the big guys are using and their's are not much different so they look to drugs and make some post like "I'm plateaued at 6' 185lbs after 2 years of training, diet and training are perfect, help me plan a cycle." I'm certainly not going to judge someone for using steroids and I myself have used them but a lot of younger guys just want to see some progress, they may want 20lbs but if they were at least progressing consistently they'd have more patience and likely wouldn't be as quick to involve themselves in activities that could cause major issues in their lives down the road. Some will certainly still use drugs but I'd venture the proportion would be quite a bit less and hopefully those who have aspirations beyond what natural training can provide.

The issue is that good training informaiton is simply not common and seems almost hidden. Most guys at Elite can probably tell you a ton about drugs/diet but ask them to explain dual factor theory or name a good book on training (hint: Arnold has not written one) and they are going to be lost - and that's simply an unacceptable imbalance to my mind. I don't know how training knowledge got obscured and glossed over for a few decades (I imagine the Nautilus machine , the near extinction of Olympic Lifting, and the white washed clean faux image of BBing that Weider has promoted to death over the years) but I'm a bit tired of honest people looking for training info and finding voodoo bull rather than basic fundemental information - I'm not even talking cutting edge here just basic training applied around the world.

So if you ever wonder what purpose I might have in taking the time to write out lengthy posts and fully explain training info and make it digestable and available, this is it. I'm not trying to change the world or clean up BBing but I'd like to see training knowledge in the general potion advanced to the point where someone can look for and actually find basic quality information that will allow them to progress. I make no money from this, my line of work is so removed from this it isn't even funny. When I see stuff like that printed in Flex, Muscle&Fitness, and Men's Health - I'll be happy and I bet there will be a lot more people making progress in the gym and enjoying the gratification that comes with laying out a plan and accruing results from solid execution.

Most of the lifters on here are overwhelmingly uni students or young recently married males with other priorities and theres generally more of a powerlifting presence. If you want to see what a more scientific, strength training approach can do I suggest browsing iron addicts sometime.

002hox.jpg


Looks big and lean to me.
 
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And for the record the lat pulldown sucks. Less muscle is involved because the movement is seated, its like comparing a squat to a leg curl.

Lat pulldowns have an advantage in that they allow fat powerlifters who can't do pull ups to get in some vertical pulling.
 
Pull ups and bent rows.

I'm not saying that you don't have to or shouldn't aim for hypertrophy, there are just better programs out there than run of the mill bodybuilding routines, and a lot of the difficulties you now have eg 'am i overtrained?' will be far more tangible because as opposed to looking at how you feel/what you see in the mirror your instead looking at someone tangible 'I just put 5kg on my bench press'.
 
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also everyone who posts alot of theories about what they do.
can u also post pics.
i wanna see how big, lean etc dudes are on here.

Cause from what i can tell most dudes are just training for strength but posting in a body building thread?
 
Also I object to periodisation as a 'theory'. Periodisation is a training protocol practised in pretty much every sport, there is enormous bodies of literature on it. 'Bodybuilding splits' on the other hand are ghost written by the authors of supplement catalogues.

Don't believe me? This is matt's routine on the muscletech page:

MuscleTech - Matt Kroczaleski > Athlete Profile & FREE Wallpapers

This is the elitefts journal matt kroc actually records in:

EliteFTS - Superior Products and Knowledge for Lifters, Athletes, Coaches, and Trainers

Things that make you go hmm...
 
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