Have you ever taken Steroids?

[Bazza20]

When I play footy if my opponent is a foot taller than me they don't tell him he is not allowed to jump as high to make it even for the both of us. It's too bad you have to do the best with what your genetics allow.

Now if were competing in an untested comp it's open slather. Do what ya want i dont care. But in tested comps artificially increasing your natural test levels is giving you an advantage. Just like some people are tall and short some have high or low test.

 

[JUICE JUNKY]

I know your not having a go at us/me but I still don't follow???

If I have almost zero testosterone due to a condition, and compete against you who has 30nmol, the playing feild is not even.
If I go on hrt and get to 29nmol your still in front, but the playing feild is now more even.

The only advantage I can see to me is, it's now a level playing feild...... Which in my eyes isn't an advantage.

Now if I triple my medication (which is not possible unless you buy illegally) I cam defiantly see how this would be advantageous.

i agree 100%, all your doing is making the playing feild more even.

the same could be said for GH deficiency's etc etc.

 

[jzpowahz]

TRT for me too. Same as Sticky basically. Was eating right, exercising reguarly, barely drinking, never smoke. Was feeling tired all the time. Got some blood tests, saw specialists, got MRI on pirtuartry gland and then was eventually prescribed for TRT. Makes a big difference to quality of life for me. Don't feel like shit all the time!

 

[Sticky]

What if the guy was born with one arm though?
Should he be allowed to get a fake arm and still play?

I can see where you are coming from though, and your entitled to your opinion, but I do still strongly disagree that I'm at an advantage. I'm being treated for a medical condition, and it puts me in normal ranges.

 

[JUICE JUNKY]

TRT for me too. Same as Sticky basically. Was eating right, exercising reguarly, barely drinking, never smoke. Was feeling tired all the time. Got some blood tests, saw specialists, got MRI on pirtuartry gland and then was eventually prescribed for TRT. Makes a big difference to quality of life for me. Don't feel like shit all the time!

i might end up going on trt as well i think...........maybe i'm already due for it?

 

[Christian]

What if the guy was born with one arm though?
Should he be allowed to get a fake arm and still play?

I can see where you are coming from though, and your entitled to your opinion, but I do still strongly disagree that I'm at an advantage. I'm being treated for a medical condition, and it puts me in normal ranges.

Some people seem to think that weightlifitng is only about testosterone and nothing else...

If he had hashimotos and was on thyroid meds would everyone have a cry then? No...

 

[Bazza20]

What if the guy was born with one arm though?
Should he be allowed to get a fake arm and still play?

I can see where you are coming from though, and your entitled to your opinion, but I do still strongly disagree that I'm at an advantage. I'm being treated for a medical condition, and it puts me in normal ranges.

Well I know of a few teams that have blokes with one arm playing. They play like everyone else.

The thing is life is not a level playing field. Some people get delt a great hand. One bloke on my team never trains, eats shit, looks better than most wannabe bodybuilders and is one of the best players in the team, he does it easy. How is that level compared to the average person who works there arse off. Its not. Competing in tested comps isnt about a level playing field it's about seeing who is the best with what you naturally have.

 

[Christian]

Well I know of a few teams that have blokes with one arm playing. They play like everyone else.

The thing is life is not a level playing field. Some people get delt a great hand. One bloke on my team never trains, eats shit, looks better than most wannabe bodybuilders and is one of the best players in the team, he does it easy. How is that level compared to the average person who works there arse off. Its not. Competing in tested comps isnt about a level playing field it's about seeing who is the best with what you naturally have.

So its about genetic superiority?

The fact you seem to think being the best comes down to 1-2nmol/L of testosterone is beyond belief.

I pulled a 200 dead with under range testosterone.

Do we not allow diabetics to play sport becuase insulin is anabolic and it might be unfair?

I see and hear alot of bitching winging, moaning and uneducated debate.

 

[JUICE JUNKY]

yeah good point, test is only one hormone, we have all the others like gh, igf, slin, adrenaline, dopamine, serotonin etc etc etc there's heaps of different hormones.

and what if someone has naturally high levels of cortisol, should they be allowed to take cortisol lowering meds?

 

[Christian]

yeah good point, test is only one hormone, we have all the others like gh, igf, slin, adrenaline, dopamine, serotonin etc etc etc there's heaps of different hormones.

and what if someone has naturally high levels of cortisol, should they be allowed to take cortisol lowering meds?

thats cushings syndrome...

I know most lifters take anti inflamatories before an event, do we ban them?

 

[Bazza20]

So its about genetic superiority?

The fact you seem to think being the best comes down to 1-2nmol/L of testosterone is beyond belief.

I pulled a 200 dead with under range testosterone.

Do we not allow diabetics to play sport becuase insulin is anabolic and it might be unfair?

I see and hear alot of bitching winging, moaning and uneducated debate.

It's not just about genetic superiority. It's about doing the best with what you naturally have.

If ya wanna take test, no worries compete in untested, simple. Don't try and pretend your natural with no added advantage.

 

[JUICE JUNKY]

I know most lifters take anti inflamatories before an event, do we ban them?

you mean like ibuprofen etc? otc meds?

 

[Sticky]

You avoided my question......
Should he be allowed to play with a fake arm?
Should a golfer be allowed to wear glasses?

To me, an advantage would be running higher than normal doses.
Starting 20m down the track in a 100m race.
I'm nit starting 20m down the track, I'm just not starting 20m behind.

At the end of the day, I dont want to compete in the tested fed, so it doesn't matter.
I just don't want people to day "sticky squatted 200kg because he is on hrt"
Sticky is going to squat 200kg because he puts lifting before everything else.

 

[staunch308]

Is this bazza20 bloke for real?

Sticky has no advantage over anyone on TRT or not. His test levels are simply being, yes artificially, brought to normal ranges due to him being at the disadvantage his natty production is not there. Theres nothing more to it.

 

[Sticky]

Thanks staunch.

Like bazza said, he isn't having a go at anybody..... Though I do disagree on his view of "advantage".

Could you explain it further bazz so I can try and understand?

To me, like I posted, would be a runner getting a head start.
I am not getting a head start, I'm simply now at the strting line.
How is that at my opponents expense?

 

[Bazza20]

Thanks staunch.

Like bazza said, he isn't having a go at anybody..... Though I do disagree on his view of "advantage".

Could you explain it further bazz so I can try and understand?

To me, like I posted, would be a runner getting a head start.
I am not getting a head start, I'm simply now at the strting line.
How is that at my opponents expense?

To Staunch were talking strictly about fairness in tested comps. Anything else is fair game.

Sticky this is a serious question that i dont know the answer to. If you were an O lifter and qualified to compete at the Olympics would you be allowed to compete.

Also i see were you are coming from. Ive read your training longs and you train hard and its due to your hard work why you are seeing results. There is definitely a grey area to what is a performance enhancing drug in a tested competition and i know that tested competition is in no way 100% clean. lol

Sticky weren't your original test levels in the normal range but on the lower end of normal?

 

[staunch308]

Bazza even in a tested comp, Sticky isn't using TRT to reach above normal range levels and if he was THEN I would agree with you that he is at an advantage, but he isn't. Then again I even recall Sticky mentioning that even with his TRT there are still people with naturally higher T levels and his levels were only being brought back to somehwere in the middle/average of the levels naturally seen.

edit: I just read the last bit of your post, you reckon he is at an advantage yet his test levels are on the lower end of normal...

In answer to the Olympics question I feel like putting in that I can't see why he shouldn't be allowed to just because he has to artificially bring his test to normal levels.

Like I said before, being on TRT doesn't make you in a position where you are at advantage over others.

 

[tray_182002]

There is ALWAYS risk.

If your not smart, as some of your friends dont seem to be, you can do yourself some real damage.

BUT

If you do your research, figure out what compounds/chemicals do what, it will certainly lower the risk, SUBSTANTIALLY.

You can still get chicks pregnant while on gear, but you will have a reduced sperm count (unless HCG is employed).

Can I ask how old you/your friends are?


Also, a lot of people do use the taper down method, but the general consensus is that your FAR better off doing a proper PCT

Im turning 27 this year. Mate have been between 19 and 26. Im have been wanting to try it for a few years now but i have an 18 month old n want to have another 1 soon , so i have been putting it of incase it did something to the bub to be on the safe side

 

[Sticky]

My first bloods were in "normal" ranges. "Normal" ranges were 11-40nmol. I came back at 12nmol.

I had to tests done after that, that came back at 8nmol and 10nmol.

You will notice that I always put the word normal in these "" things.
That's because what is normal for some, isnt normal for everybody. It's kind of like saying a normal person will get drunk on 10 drinks..... Sure, most people will get pissed with 10 drinks, but I know people that need to drink much less to feel the same affects.

Can you see where Im heading with this logic?

As far as the Olympic go..... You would have to refer to their rule book and see if I could apply for an exemption.
Going by Christians quote earlier, it is possible technically, but I'm sure they wouldn't touch me with a 100ft pole because of the "grey" area you mentioned before.

I'm defiantly not "enhanced", but technically not natural either.

 

[Sticky]

Im turning 27 this year. Mate have been between 19 and 26. Im have been wanting to try it for a few years now but i have an 18 month old n want to have another 1 soon , so i have been putting it of incase it did something to the bub to be on the safe side

If I was lucky enough to be in your position, and didn't compete competativly, I'd defiantly hold off until I had finished my family.....

To me, family > muscle.
That's my view, and your of course and adult, thus able to make your own informed decision.

DO NOT listen to your mates if you do decide to cycle.....
Do many hours of your own research, ask questions, get blood work, then decide what you want to do.