Blood flow restriction / occlusion training

Davepuppies · Feb 10, 2015

Has anyone tried this style of training?

it is essentially wrapping the end of a limb (example biceps- wrapped at insertion near shoulder) with a pressure of 6-7/10 then pumping a lighter weight.

the wrap allows blood into the muscle, but does not allow it to return.

results are extreme pumps, stretched fascias and ultimately growth.

i have never tried it, but might one day try my biceps.

anyone tried it?

from what I have read it is painful as hell!

Neddysmith · Feb 10, 2015

Sounds like something don't wrong could result in some sort of injury and yes it does sounds quite painful

Stiffy · Feb 10, 2015

Das da chit Layne Norton experimented with hey. I assume its for Bodybuilding only as he doesn't use it for his Powerlifting, at least not in his videos anyway.

Repacked · Feb 10, 2015

Occlusion training. Never tried it.

Davepuppies · Feb 10, 2015

El Stiffy said:
Das da chit Layne Norton experimented with hey. I assume its for Bodybuilding only as he doesn't use it for his Powerlifting, at least not in his videos anyway.

Yep, bodybuilding specific.

I saw saw a pic of Gary Wright on facebook today, and he was doing occlusion training, and I remember Luke speaking about it last year.

agreed it seems like a extreme method.

Davepuppies · Feb 10, 2015

Neddysmith said:
Sounds like something don't wrong could result in some sort of injury and yes it does sounds quite painful

Yep, I remember thinking that when I first heard about it a year or 2 ago.

guys were talking about using a topical vasodilator like prototype 7 and doing 5-6 sets with this method.

panda · Feb 10, 2015

Sounds like a cock ring for your arm

steveP · Feb 10, 2015

Based on what other bodybuilders have said, they're not fans. You want to get nutrient filled blood into your muscles, not pool depleted blood.

Repacked · Feb 10, 2015

steveP said:
Based on what other bodybuilders have said, they're not fans. You want to get nutrient filled blood into your muscles, not pool depleted blood.

Blood still flows to the muscle group. There are advantages to building up by-products like lactic acid.

steveP · Feb 10, 2015

Repacked said:
Blood still flows to the muscle group. There are advantages to building up by-products like lactic acid.

But once the muscle has reached maximum capacity, new blood will be slower to enter as the the current blood is slower to exit. I'm just not seeing any advantage to this style of training.

Repacked · Feb 10, 2015

That's another key part of it - engorging the muscle with as much blood as possible.

Jungnaut · Feb 10, 2015

What part of this sounds healthy lol? Actually from a laymans view I would say it's rather dangerous. Wouldn't want some self induced DVT blood clot forming.. or do we haha.

Repacked · Feb 10, 2015

Jungnaut said:
Wouldn't want some self induced DVT blood clot forming.. or do we haha.

I don't think we do...

Davepuppies · Feb 10, 2015

steveP said:
Based on what other bodybuilders have said, they're not fans. You want to get nutrient filled blood into your muscles, not pool depleted blood.

Any specific body builders Steve?

i can understand re nutrient filled blood.

any value to simply stretching the facsia though this method, then releasing and doing a few more sets afterward with normal blood flow?

would be interesting to hear from someone who has actually done it!

White_Lie · Feb 10, 2015

Sounds as effective as choking yourself whilst choking the chicken, I don't think it would be too good for you long term. I'll stick to my nitrates for added pump

Repacked · Feb 10, 2015

White_Lie said:
Sounds as effective as choking yourself whilst choking the chicken, I don't think it would be too good for you long term. I'll stick to my nitrates for added pump

Apparently quite effective. Just ask David Carradine.

steveP · Feb 11, 2015

Davepuppies said:
Any specific body builders Steve?

i can understand re nutrient filled blood.

any value to simply stretching the facsia though this method, then releasing and doing a few more sets afterward with normal blood flow?

would be interesting to hear from someone who has actually done it!

It just seems a common attitude when I watch clips of bodybuilders talk on YouTube that it does more harm than good.

Some links I found interesting:
Big Ass Mass: Occlusion Training | FLEX Online
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-muscle-prof-occlusion-training.html

It looks like it only kind of works when going very light. And the main risk is wrapping too tight, as too much pressure is what causes the damage.

Although occlusion training can effectively stimulate growth in some situations, it is not very practical to use day to day. For one, cuffs appropriate for occlusion training are very expensive. In Japan, it is called Kaatsu training, and you can go to gyms where trainers will put cuffs on you and you perform exercises with light weights. Kaatsu cuffs are very expensive and difficult to find. I have heard of others trying to use belts and lifting straps. The problem here is that you have no idea how much pressure you are putting on the limb. In a research setting, pressure is held constant at 100–200 mmHg by a computer hooked up to the cuff. Too much pressure can cause damage to the underlying tissues as well as inhibit growth in those fibers running under the cuff. And you can hurt yourself with occlusion training. There have been reports of occlusion training inducing rhabdomyolysis (severe muscle damage with elevated creatine kinase levels) requiring nearly a month for full recovery.
A fellow lifter and expert in the field of hypertrophy and occlusion training summed it up this way (see M. Wernbom, J. Augustsson, and T. Raastad), “...it seems reasonable to suggest that while the effects of blood flow–restricted training at low loads and traditional heavy-resistance training on muscle volume are similar, the effects of low-load ischemic training on tendons, and possibly also on neural adaptations, are less than with conventional strength training.” These sentiments are borne out in recent research showing inferior results compared with straightforward strength training. So for now, you are probably better off just getting your training routine optimized and your diet and supplements in order, than trying to strangle your legs and hoping for the best.

The problem, as you might expect, is that many lifters don't know how tightly to wrap to restrict the veins and not arteries. This is no good. But our study addressed the problem directly, and we found a simple approach to make sure you're on the right track.
Simply put, wrapping at a pressure that lifters perceived to be a 7 on a scale of 10 on the legs, and 5-6 on the arms, reliably occluded the veins but not the arteries. This is as tight as you should go, and no tighter.
You may have to do some tinkering to find your 7, but you should never wrap as tight as possible, which would be a 10.
As for weight, all the research indicates that there's no benefit to be gained from going heavy. Select a weight that is 20-40 percent of your 1RM—seriously! Trust me, it will feel much heavier by the end.
Our recommendation for the ideal BFR workout to optimizing growth is 4 sets with reps of 30, 15, 15, and 15, with only 30 seconds rest between sets. Perform this workout 2-3 times per week.
It is essential that you wrap directly around in a circular manner on a narrow area, such as the narrowest part of the upper arm. Wrapping in a wider area puts you at risk for occluding the arteries.[SUP]4[/SUP]

WoodyAllen · Feb 11, 2015

Repacked said:
Apparently quite effective. Just ask David Carradine.

I did, but he hasn't returned my call yet…..

Repacked · Feb 11, 2015

WoodyAllen said:
I did, but he hasn't returned my call yet…..

Give him time...I think he's tied up...

jzpowahz · Feb 11, 2015

I tried it once for curls because my shoulder was so fucked that I couldn't curl regular weight. Felt weird.

Biceps did not grow. (just like every other time I've curled haha)

Blood flow restriction / occlusion training

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