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Beginners program

Okay, obviously you dont lift or youve never done that program.

Here are the stats of one young 17yo who has/does. He weighs 70kg, his goal is to bigger and stronger than you.

squats 160kg
deadlift 190kg
bench press 95kg
powerclean 112.5kg
jerk 102.5kg

He has gained 20kg.

You train to get strong, eat to get big.

F u c k, I thought we were passed all this

He squats 125kg x 20

He front squats 140kg

What more could anybody possibly ask for from a full body workout?

Your turn
 
Okay, obviously you dont lift or youve never done that program.

Here are the stats of one young 17yo who has/does. He weighs 70kg, his goal is to bigger and stronger than you.

squats 160kg
deadlift 190kg
bench press 95kg
powerclean 112.5kg
jerk 102.5kg

He has gained 20kg.

You train to get strong, eat to get big.

F u c k, I thought we were passed all this

He squats 125kg x 20

He front squats 140kg

What more could anybody possibly ask for from a full body workout?

Your turn
 
What, no more questions?

Look, this program works, as long as you have a strong work ethic, most dont, I know, I have trained thousands of lifters.

Everyone wants to get into 5x5 and other flavours of the month.

Fact is, this program is too hard for the soft sissy boys in todays society. Thats why the ones that CAN tough it out do so well on it and stand out.

Check my newsletter on Shorty who did this program.

His best lifts, 2 1/2 years after starting training on this program are mind numbing.

then you realise he did them weighing under 70kg.

215kg deadlift for instance, 100% raw, not even a belt, triple bodyweight.
 
What, no more questions?

Look, this program works, as long as you have a strong work ethic, most dont, I know, I have trained thousands of lifters.

Everyone wants to get into 5x5 and other flavours of the month.

Fact is, this program is too hard for the soft sissy boys in todays society. Thats why the ones that CAN tough it out do so well on it and stand out.

Check my newsletter on Shorty who did this program.

His best lifts, 2 1/2 years after starting training on this program are mind numbing.

then you realise he did them weighing under 70kg.

215kg deadlift for instance, 100% raw, not even a belt, triple bodyweight.
 
I am sensing you don't like anyone questioning you, this is evident by the way you attempt to belittle me with every reply while I am trying to have a rational discussion posing what is in my opinion a valid question that you have continued to avoid.

What is clear to me is that you cannot justify how the program you advocated is ideal for increasing your 1RM. You can get stronger on any program, including those that are designed for hypertrophy, this does not necessarily mean they are optimum for increasing your 1RM. The example you give of the 17 years old sounds like he has made wonderful progress, and for the record I think your program is an excellent full body 3 x week routine. This does not mean the 17 year old has followed the fastest path to increasing his 1RM which is what your thread was all about.

I await your next personal attack with baited breath.
 
I am sensing you don't like anyone questioning you, this is evident by the way you attempt to belittle me with every reply while I am trying to have a rational discussion posing what is in my opinion a valid question that you have continued to avoid.

What is clear to me is that you cannot justify how the program you advocated is ideal for increasing your 1RM. You can get stronger on any program, including those that are designed for hypertrophy, this does not necessarily mean they are optimum for increasing your 1RM. The example you give of the 17 years old sounds like he has made wonderful progress, and for the record I think your program is an excellent full body 3 x week routine. This does not mean the 17 year old has followed the fastest path to increasing his 1RM which is what your thread was all about.

I await your next personal attack with baited breath.
 
User Name said:
You can get stronger on any program, including those that are designed for hypertrophy, this does not necessarily mean they are optimum for increasing your 1RM.
Click to expand...
It seems that I've missed the discussion here whilst I was busy answering your question somewhere else UN: http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9646-bodyfat-estimate-pics-2.html#post78054

http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9660-beginners-look-here.html#post78053

Now re the point you've raised above, I say sure you can get stronger on any program, even as you've said:
including those that are designed for hypertrophy...
Click to expand...
that’s why a forum such as this is great. One can go back and forth with questions, answers, and sometimes clarify some points that need clarification.

Getting stronger is all relative. One can get stronger performing 15 reps and 3 reps; both of these reps will create muscle hypertrophy. The question now becomes to what degree and what type of muscle hypertrophy are we talking about here? This is a deep and fascinating subject I find. Please check here to see the difference between sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (which I have given up on this week), and myofibrillar hypertrophy which is acquired through some low rep heavy lifting. This is where permanent muscle territory lays if you like. Please do check page #50 in this book: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=QWSn4iKgNo8C&dq=Science+and+practice+of+strength+training&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=EUH0Ssm6K9aSkAWe9ImsAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CA4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I'm not 100% sure if I have answered your question, but I'm here if you need to ask or get something clarified. Thank you for your time.


Fadi.
 
User Name said:
You can get stronger on any program, including those that are designed for hypertrophy, this does not necessarily mean they are optimum for increasing your 1RM.
Click to expand...
It seems that I've missed the discussion here whilst I was busy answering your question somewhere else UN: http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9646-bodyfat-estimate-pics-2.html#post78054

http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9660-beginners-look-here.html#post78053

Now re the point you've raised above, I say sure you can get stronger on any program, even as you've said:
including those that are designed for hypertrophy...
Click to expand...
that’s why a forum such as this is great. One can go back and forth with questions, answers, and sometimes clarify some points that need clarification.

Getting stronger is all relative. One can get stronger performing 15 reps and 3 reps; both of these reps will create muscle hypertrophy. The question now becomes to what degree and what type of muscle hypertrophy are we talking about here? This is a deep and fascinating subject I find. Please check here to see the difference between sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (which I have given up on this week), and myofibrillar hypertrophy which is acquired through some low rep heavy lifting. This is where permanent muscle territory lays if you like. Please do check page #50 in this book: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=QWSn4iKgNo8C&dq=Science+and+practice+of+strength+training&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=EUH0Ssm6K9aSkAWe9ImsAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CA4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I'm not 100% sure if I have answered your question, but I'm here if you need to ask or get something clarified. Thank you for your time.


Fadi.
 
Do the program for 6 months and post back your progress, you may answer your own questions.

By the way, the kid doing the program was doing it for soccer, not just to increase his 1RM.

The fact he squats 2.2 x bodyweight, cleans 1.8 x bodyweight, front squats 2 x bodyweight, deadlift 2.7 x bodyweight, squats 1.8x bodyweight for 20 reps is a by product of his 18 months of hard training, as is the weight gain from 51kg to 70kg.

What exactly is your problem? Is it not obvious this programis super effective for anyone man enough to do it consistently.

Do you have a program that yeilds better results than those I've posted.

If so, please share.
 
Do the program for 6 months and post back your progress, you may answer your own questions.

By the way, the kid doing the program was doing it for soccer, not just to increase his 1RM.

The fact he squats 2.2 x bodyweight, cleans 1.8 x bodyweight, front squats 2 x bodyweight, deadlift 2.7 x bodyweight, squats 1.8x bodyweight for 20 reps is a by product of his 18 months of hard training, as is the weight gain from 51kg to 70kg.

What exactly is your problem? Is it not obvious this programis super effective for anyone man enough to do it consistently.

Do you have a program that yeilds better results than those I've posted.

If so, please share.
 
User Name said:
I am sensing you don't like anyone questioning you
Click to expand...
There's questioning like "I don't understand, can you explain?" and then there's questioning like "d00d u r wrong."

For example, bringing up nameless bodybuilders who never squatted. This may be a true story, but you can understand that we are sceptical. It adds nothing to the conversation.

I assure you, as someone who is weak in the squat and deadlift, someone who has a lower back deformity which causes pain and discomfort, I would love to discover some way to strengthen and grow those muscles other than squats and deadlifts. And in all my reading, all my study of fitness at official level, all my discussions with people far more experienced than me, all I hear is "tough, you have to squat and deadlift."

So when I ask you about this mysterious bloke who builds his body to competition level without those exercises, I really do want to know, and would be really delighted to drop squats and deadlifts and do whatever he does. And I'm not alone, I'm sure. There are literally millions of lifters in the world who are nauseous after a set of deadlifts, who get tunnel vision and trembling legs after a set of squats, people sweating their guts out for results - they'd love to hear of a way it could be done without that. A real way, not "I heard of a guy -" or "abserciser" or some crap like that.

The thing is that because you refuse to tell us anything verifiable or specific about him, this makes us think... well, it's bullsht. You made it up.

Making sht up does not add to the conversation. What does add to the conversation is people sharing specific details of their experiences. I tried this and it did that, and so on. "This guy I know who I can't say who he is and anyway you never heard of him says..." not so much.

Notice that many of us have our lifts and time training in our signatures. This puts what we say in perspective. Notice also that many of us use our real first names as user names, or at least have them in our sigs. This makes conversations more straightforward, honest and polite, and generally more productive.
This does not mean the 17 year old has followed the fastest path to increasing his 1RM which is what your thread was all about.
Click to expand...
Is that what this thread is about? I thought the thread was about a beginner's weights programme which could lay an excellent foundation for further programmes tailored to individual goals. I dunno, I read threads before commenting on them so sometimes I get confused.

Markos mentioned Shorty's story. Read it. It's both informative and inspirational. Shorty's lifts are greater since then. More importantly, he's healthy and happy.
 
Last edited:
User Name said:
I am sensing you don't like anyone questioning you
Click to expand...
There's questioning like "I don't understand, can you explain?" and then there's questioning like "d00d u r wrong."

For example, bringing up nameless bodybuilders who never squatted. This may be a true story, but you can understand that we are sceptical. It adds nothing to the conversation.

I assure you, as someone who is weak in the squat and deadlift, someone who has a lower back deformity which causes pain and discomfort, I would love to discover some way to strengthen and grow those muscles other than squats and deadlifts. And in all my reading, all my study of fitness at official level, all my discussions with people far more experienced than me, all I hear is "tough, you have to squat and deadlift."

So when I ask you about this mysterious bloke who builds his body to competition level without those exercises, I really do want to know, and would be really delighted to drop squats and deadlifts and do whatever he does. And I'm not alone, I'm sure. There are literally millions of lifters in the world who are nauseous after a set of deadlifts, who get tunnel vision and trembling legs after a set of squats, people sweating their guts out for results - they'd love to hear of a way it could be done without that. A real way, not "I heard of a guy -" or "abserciser" or some crap like that.

The thing is that because you refuse to tell us anything verifiable or specific about him, this makes us think... well, it's bullsht. You made it up.

Making sht up does not add to the conversation. What does add to the conversation is people sharing specific details of their experiences. I tried this and it did that, and so on. "This guy I know who I can't say who he is and anyway you never heard of him says..." not so much.

Notice that many of us have our lifts and time training in our signatures. This puts what we say in perspective. Notice also that many of us use our real first names as user names, or at least have them in our sigs. This makes conversations more straightforward, honest and polite, and generally more productive.
This does not mean the 17 year old has followed the fastest path to increasing his 1RM which is what your thread was all about.
Click to expand...
Is that what this thread is about? I thought the thread was about a beginner's weights programme which could lay an excellent foundation for further programmes tailored to individual goals. I dunno, I read threads before commenting on them so sometimes I get confused.

Markos mentioned Shorty's story. Read it. It's both informative and inspirational. Shorty's lifts are greater since then. More importantly, he's healthy and happy.
 
Thanks for your reply Fadi - you are a true gentleman.

As for "what is my problem" PTC, I have repeatedly stated it. You have advocated a program that is designed for hypertrophy as the path to achieving certain 1RM goals.

What I am suggesting is, there would be strength based programs that would help a lifter achieve 1RM goals in a more timely manner. As I am not a Powerlifter whose only concern is my 1RM in 3 lifts, I am no expert at specific PL programs, hence I was asking if there was a reason you are advocating a program whose principals are different to those done over at Westside.
 
Thanks for your reply Fadi - you are a true gentleman.

As for "what is my problem" PTC, I have repeatedly stated it. You have advocated a program that is designed for hypertrophy as the path to achieving certain 1RM goals.

What I am suggesting is, there would be strength based programs that would help a lifter achieve 1RM goals in a more timely manner. As I am not a Powerlifter whose only concern is my 1RM in 3 lifts, I am no expert at specific PL programs, hence I was asking if there was a reason you are advocating a program whose principals are different to those done over at Westside.
 
Hey Kyle -
Take a wander over to Lyle McDonalds site, which is NOT a powerlifting site, and pose the question as to whether squats and deads are essential for building the physique. They are 1 way to do so, not the only way. I think you could find Lyle's site very helpful with finding alternatives to those exercises. There is no such thing as a "must do" exercise if its not specific, ie PL's, that is purely ego based diatribe. Squats and deads may be the fastest path to size and strength for most, but not all, and there are other ways to achieve the same results that may be more suited to the individual.
 
Hey Kyle -
Take a wander over to Lyle McDonalds site, which is NOT a powerlifting site, and pose the question as to whether squats and deads are essential for building the physique. They are 1 way to do so, not the only way. I think you could find Lyle's site very helpful with finding alternatives to those exercises. There is no such thing as a "must do" exercise if its not specific, ie PL's, that is purely ego based diatribe. Squats and deads may be the fastest path to size and strength for most, but not all, and there are other ways to achieve the same results that may be more suited to the individual.
 
Yes, I've seen his site, it's very useful and interesting.

However, on that particular issue he fails to present us with examples. If I ask someone for examples of people who've built strong and big legs and backs from squatting and powerlifting, people can give me links and books, I could spend the rest of my life reading the stories as a full-time job.

If I ask for examples of people who've done it with lunges and step-ups, the silence is deafening.

I just don't see any proven alternative to fcking hard work.
 
Yes, I've seen his site, it's very useful and interesting.

However, on that particular issue he fails to present us with examples. If I ask someone for examples of people who've built strong and big legs and backs from squatting and powerlifting, people can give me links and books, I could spend the rest of my life reading the stories as a full-time job.

If I ask for examples of people who've done it with lunges and step-ups, the silence is deafening.

I just don't see any proven alternative to fcking hard work.
 
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