Beginners program

[Fadi]

I have a query about mixing this up due to training imbalances..

I've been back in training a couple of months post a knee reconstruction layoff and I'd tried to go back to the 5x5 i was on prior, lifting at that point 135x5x5 squats, 95x5x5 bench and about 160 sets on deads..

Since getting back I've struggled getting the leg strength back so have looked to switching onto something like this, but im back to 87.5x5x5 on bench ( more than squat...) so was thinking of continuing bench on a less frequent 5x5 with the rest of this mixed in?

Any ideas on a better approach?


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I can only share with you what I have seen with my own two eyes both whilst at the AIS, and working at a hospital. Olympic weightlifters who go on to have knee surgery, come back to plenty of leg extensions. Even hospital rehabs focus on this exercise for strengthening everything that surrounds the healing knee. So perhaps, once your focus shifts a bit more towards the rehabilitation of a specific area of your leg (namely the area surrounding your recovering knee), then and only then your own body would signal to you if and when you're truly ready to engage in some serious lifting.

All the best, and please be patient, as (right now), patience is your true virtue.

 

[parfittron]

I can only share with you what I have seen with my own two eyes both whilst at the AIS, and working at a hospital. Olympic weightlifters who go on to have knee surgery, come back to plenty of leg extensions. Even hospital rehabs focus on this exercise for strengthening everything that surrounds the healing knee. So perhaps, once your focus shifts a bit more towards the rehabilitation of a specific area of your leg (namely the area surrounding your recovering knee), then and only then your own body would signal to you if and when you're truly ready to engage in some serious lifting.

All the best, and please be patient, as (right now), patience is your true virtue.

Fadi, I'd always been told by physios etc that leg extensions were very bad for reconstructed knees due to force it places around the front of the knee cap?

I've been pretty patient, its a long time now post surgery but a combination of laziness for a time, in addition to a few other niggles in it meaning I've just gotten nowhere.

Struggling to get enough confidence to really push it hard enough to gain much and when i do, it tends to result in problems which then need time off

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[Fadi]

Fadi, I'd always been told by physios etc that leg extensions were very bad for reconstructed knees due to force it places around the front of the knee cap?

I've been pretty patient, its a long time now post surgery but a combination of laziness for a time, in addition to a few other niggles in it meaning I've just gotten nowhere.

Struggling to get enough confidence to really push it hard enough to gain much and when i do, it tends to result in problems which then need time off

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I hear what you say thank you. Perhaps the medical community have learnt something anew today they weren't aware of in yesteryears. Listening to today's experts is your wisest move.

Now re gaining enough confidence to really push through. Well I have given up all together on squats, however I'm beginning to think perhaps I shouldn't have. Why am I telling you this now? Because just like you, I was afraid, which led me to have zero confidence in the whole exercise. Your post this morning has triggered my thought process, and have gotten me to perhaps reevaluate my stance on the squats and the reason behind my stopping the whole exercise.

You've come here for help, not realising at the time that within your question and comments, laid a solution to another member's dilemma. Your magic words were three: "to really push", that's it.

I believe within these three words lie the real problem, not just for you, but for both of us. Why do I say that? Because there's no rule in the book that says we (you and I) are required to really push if we are not really ready to really push, that's why! And where is it written that we have to engage in the squat, why not use the leg press for a good while, until our confidence (not to mention our leg strength) increases enough, before we make the move back onto visiting the squats? Can you hear me the way I can hear you mate?

Thank you for posting and sharing your story.

 

[parfittron]

I hear what you say thank you. Perhaps the medical community have learnt something anew today they weren't aware of in yesteryears. Listening to today's experts is your wisest move.

Now re gaining enough confidence to really push through. Well I have given up all together on squats, however I'm beginning to think perhaps I shouldn't have. Why am I telling you this now? Because just like you, I was afraid, which led me to have zero confidence in the whole exercise. Your post this morning has triggered my thought process, and have gotten me to perhaps reevaluate my stance on the squats and the reason behind my stopping the whole exercise.

You've come here for help, not realising at the time that within your question and comments, laid a solution to another member's dilemma. Your magic words were three: "to really push", that's it.

I believe within these three words lie the real problem, not just for you, but for both of us. Why do I say that? Because there's no rule in the book that says we (you and I) are required to really push if we are not really ready to really push, that's why! And where is it written that we have to engage in the squat, why not use the leg press for a good while, until our confidence (not to mention our leg strength) increases enough, before we make the move back onto visiting the squats? Can you hear me the way I can hear you mate?

Thank you for posting and sharing your story.

Thanks mate. Yeah I'm hearing you for sure.

Cheers

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[ChevMandes]

So after about 5 years between sets, hopefully thats enough rest before my next sets, I'm thinking of starting this, but I have a few questions.

Does Muscle memory last 5 years, or am I starting from complete scratch. I haven't gotten fat, just unfit and skinny. Will the muscle come back easily? (I'm guessing its been way to long).
Are all of these for 10? 140kg squat for 10 will be twice my body weight, a 180kg deadlift for 10 seems insane too.
Due to work I will be working out around 3:30pm every day, but usually, I struggle to stay awake once home around this time. I figure I got to go straight to the gym, or it will never happen. Don't you have the lowest level of Testosterome/Energy at this time period, will my body be able to adjust, half the time I'll have a 20minute snooze at this time. which I might do on the non-lift days (or should I never sleep at this time to get used to lifting days?).
My shoulders are shagged, enough said, I struggle to hang up washing on the cloths line half the time. I think any military press or shoulder work is off the table. Can I replace with a triceps exercise?
I plan on doing conventional deads, but from reading, this is fine, correct?
Best ab exercise to pull it into line and help stabilise for squats??
Also, I know I will be getting increadable soreness the day after, whats the best way to avoid it, or recover from it? in the morning and on breaks should I do some body weight squats/push ups? Any foods I can eat to avoid it?
I plan on doing some bodyweight exercises for a month before I start this up. hopefully lets me drag along a co-worker too. Thanks.

 

[Goosey]

Start off light just practice the movements and workout everyday you don't want crippling DOMS.

tricep work work is good

no ab work just do squats that'll add to you torso strength

as I said start off light progressively add weight after one week or when you think you've nailed good form.

the term muscle memory is stupid, you are out of condition you first need to condition yourself before you can think about growing muscle.

 

[Goosey]

Don't do body weight shit just go go go.

youll be surprised how quick strength will come but initially that will be more neurological

 

[Shrek]

That'll work. ???

 

[Goosey]

Yeah, I reckon

 

[simo74]

So after about 5 years between sets, hopefully thats enough rest before my next sets, I'm thinking of starting this, but I have a few questions.

Does Muscle memory last 5 years, or am I starting from complete scratch. I haven't gotten fat, just unfit and skinny. Will the muscle come back easily? (I'm guessing its been way to long).
Are all of these for 10? 140kg squat for 10 will be twice my body weight, a 180kg deadlift for 10 seems insane too.
Due to work I will be working out around 3:30pm every day, but usually, I struggle to stay awake once home around this time. I figure I got to go straight to the gym, or it will never happen. Don't you have the lowest level of Testosterome/Energy at this time period, will my body be able to adjust, half the time I'll have a 20minute snooze at this time. which I might do on the non-lift days (or should I never sleep at this time to get used to lifting days?).
My shoulders are shagged, enough said, I struggle to hang up washing on the cloths line half the time. I think any military press or shoulder work is off the table. Can I replace with a triceps exercise?
I plan on doing conventional deads, but from reading, this is fine, correct?
Best ab exercise to pull it into line and help stabilise for squats??
Also, I know I will be getting increadable soreness the day after, whats the best way to avoid it, or recover from it? in the morning and on breaks should I do some body weight squats/push ups? Any foods I can eat to avoid it?
I plan on doing some bodyweight exercises for a month before I start this up. hopefully lets me drag along a co-worker too. Thanks.

Dont worry about muscle memory just train and get better every day
weight targets are for 1 rep max, but again they are irreverent, start with a bar, add weight each week and see where you are in a year
Dont sweat the time the body will adjust to what what ever time you workout just make sure you get plenty of sleep each day consistently
Either get your shoulder right or swap it out for a triceps exercise both is good
Regular Deads are fine
Best ab exercise is one you like doing, hanging leg raise or ab wheel is good
If you start light the soreness wont be that bad just done go crazy on the first workout, keep moving if you have soreness,( walking cycling swimming ) this can help it go away quicker but really nothing to do other than eat right and sleep.
Like Goosey said forget the bodyweight stuff just start really light. I came back from a 10 year hiatus last year and followed this program, I literally started with an Olympic bar for all movements for the first week then added 2.5kg to each side for all movements every week until I could no longer get the reps, then started adding 1.25kg a side a week.

Good luck with it. Just remember to eat good food and enough of it and to get a good nights sleep every night, consistency and hard work are the only things that matter.

 

[onslaught]

Squatted and deadlifted for the first time in a few months 2 days ago. Still cant walk properly.

All the above advice is good, Don't do what I did and overload on day 1 based on ego.

Don't let stupidity get the better of you on day 2 either, I probably won't take my own advice because I'm an impatient idiot.

 

[ChevMandes]

Thanks for the replies. Appreciated.

 

[Pappy O'Daniels]

Does anyone here recommend the old programs, like Joe Weidner's stuff or Reg Park's routine?

 

[Fadi]

Does anyone here recommend the old programs, like Joe Weidner's stuff or Reg Park's routine?

Don't know about Weider's or Park's program, or anyone else's program for that matter, because what really matters is what works for you at your age, and your level of health and fitness. Everyone has a particular 'something" that seems to work for them better than that "other thing". So please, do not restrict your potential and confine it to one particular program, irrespective to whom this program once belonged.

There are the basics, the meat and potatoes if you like, and now we also have the scientific side to building muscles and getting stronger. Based on this information and knowledge, one is able to draw up a program that would suite his particular needs at a particular time in his lifting journey. I wish you all the very best, beginning with health and vitality.

 

[Pappy O'Daniels]

Thanks, Fadi.

I like Parks because that's what I did as a teenager, worked like a charm back then.

 

[simo74]

The reg park or weider beginner routines are not really that different to this, 5 or 6 basic exercises to cover the whole body. Do a few sets for some reps, three days a week and keep progressively adding weight. They are all the same, what matters is consistency and hard work.

 

[ChevMandes]

I'm sure this has been asked (220+ pages is a lot to look through) but, how would people recommend warm up sets. Say if I could squat 100kg for 10, how would it look?
When I was doing 5X5's I would start with the bar for 2X5, and then work up to the working set, with 10kg increments, all for 5, but I would be sort of tired before I got to the last set. Whats a decent format look like?

 

[simo74]

Warm up,
bar x 10 (assume 20kg bar)
add 20kg a side - 60kg x 5
add 20kg a side - 100kg first working set

 

[Fadi]

I'm sure this has been asked (220+ pages is a lot to look through) but, how would people recommend warm up sets. Say if I could squat 100kg for 10, how would it look?
When I was doing 5X5's I would start with the bar for 2X5, and then work up to the working set, with 10kg increments, all for 5, but I would be sort of tired before I got to the last set. Whats a decent format look like?

Warm up sets depend on more than just one factor. For example, the weather has a role to play in the way you approach your warm up sets. Your age and the state of your connective tissues play yet another important factor. When you're young (generally speaking), you could make bigger jumps in weights without your joints being negatively affected. I don't know your age, but you gave 100kg x10 as an example of best squat.

If I was young and the weather was warm, and I was doing sets of 10s, my approach would look something like this:

20kg x5
40kg x5
60kg x3
80kg x3
100kg x10, 10, 10

Why the lower reps leading up to the 10s when the intention is 10 reps? Because a warm up is just that, a warm up and not an energy sapper. If the 3 reps felt in the groove with all joints feeling lubricated as opposed to feeling rusty, then the 80kg is only there to prevent the brain from a shock. What you feel resting on your trapezius would determine the way you conduct your set, as it's about messages sent and received between your brain and your working muscles. If the brain is happy with the load and perceives it to be safe and manageable, it would tell your legs (and your whole body and nervous system) to go ahead and lift it. If on the other hand you increase the weight by more than what your brain perceives to be a safe and manageable weight to lift (say you go from 40kg straight to 100kg), your brain would automatically begin to send negative signals to the rest of your body, telling it, it (the body) is not ready yet, and you'd have great difficulties managing a weight you have done before.

So it's all in the approach, beginning with your mind (based on your experience), and the way it helps your brain send the right and /or favourable messages that would facilitate instead of hinder the working sets for you.

 

[Pappy O'Daniels]

Why the lower reps leading up to the 10s when the intention is 10 reps? Because a warm up is just that, a warm up and not an energy sapper. If the 3 reps felt in the groove with all joints feeling lubricated as opposed to feeling rusty, then the 80kg is only there to prevent the brain from a shock. What you feel resting on your trapezius would determine the way you conduct your set, as it's about messages sent and received between your brain and your working muscles. If the brain is happy with the load and perceives it to be safe and manageable, it would tell your legs (and your whole body and nervous system) to go ahead and lift it. If on the other hand you increase the weight by more than what your brain perceives to be a safe and manageable weight to lift (say you go from 40kg straight to 100kg), your brain would automatically begin to send negative signals to the rest of your body, telling it, it (the body) is not ready yet, and you'd have great difficulties managing a weight you have done before.

So it's all in the approach, beginning with your mind (based on your experience), and the way it helps your brain send the right and /or favourable messages that would facilitate instead of hinder the working sets for you.

This is great advice. Fadi, you're a Jedi Master of this game, I can see that!