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Why Policy?

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NAPARM said:
2. Anyone who even thinks about suing someone because they accused you of being on the gear is an absolute tool
That is all :)
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Some of us take it very seriously and could suffer loss and injury. I don't want to risk losing my diplomat (APEC) card, put into jeapordy my directorships here and overseas and have my standing as a professional muddied because some little shit wants to play games.

Play games, throw all the allegations you like at my persona here on the forum, but do it in the real world and in a way that publicly involves my real person and I will do what I consider necessary to protect my interests.

As Stephen indicated, there are people in the administrative bodies and law enforcement who use these forums as a source of information. If that information is wrong, then sometimes the wrong people get targeted.

Now, although a corporation can't be defamed, there is such a thing as "injurious falsehood". One day someone on the board of PA might wake up with an extra large and hairy set of agates and start using the resources available to him to seek some remedy. That might even jeopardize the future of forums like this.
 
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NAPARM said:
1. Unless you are with a person every minute of every day you do not know for a fact that they are drug free (even if they are your friend)
2. Anyone who even thinks about suing someone because they accused you of being on the gear is an absolute tool
3. Having an elitist attitude because you are natural is pretty stupid

That is all :)
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I have never talked myself up or gone on about drug free being superior or anything similar.
In criminal law the standard of proof is beyond reasonable doubt- except in areas like negligence or recklessness where, like civil law, it's about the balance of probabilities. Your first point is that unless you follow someone around 24/7 you can't know that they are drug free, even if they are a friend.
Using the same logic we could say you can't know you are not an undercover cop, using a fake profile to trade and solicit child porn, a terrorist or that all of your strength achievements are fake and done using fake weight plates. Of course without any reason to suspect any of these things you could say it was unfair and/or unreasonable to suggest any of these things could be true. I'd say any such suggestion is silly.
All I have been saying is that hypothesising about a specific group is disrespectful. I do not speculate about Capo guys. I have many friends from many Feds- I respect them all and don't go online running hypotheticals. I have explained why this is frustrating for me. I don't think I have ever adopted an elitist attitude or done anything that would warrant accusations and although I understand what people are arguing I am surprised some people are so staunchly adopting this attitude that "you can never know" or that you'd be a fool to think there is no cheating when, as I have said, if there is no good reason to suspect then there is no good reason to cast doubts.
 
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Reverting to the third person narrative and skirting around the edge as chicken shits would, it is hard to find an instance where the staunchly drug free proponents in this forum have shown "elitism" or passed judgement on lifters from federations that lack a testing policy.

For those following the various debates, it more often the folks with a big chip on their shoulder who over-react and, with much venom, at the suggestion of universal policy across the various lifting federations.

We all revere the champions of the past and respect achivements of most of the current crop, irrespective of the flag they choose. Some of us even go all doe-eyed when they talk about the sport in the 1980's and 1990's.

Referring to abuse of illegal AAS as "moronic" "stupid" etc..... is not an indicator of elitism. It is a stance and and those who still have a view to the contrary are swimming against the tide of community expectations, and seem oblivious to the shit storm that is now sweeping across organised sport in Australia.
 
We get it Von.

You are awesome for not using.

Anyone who uses is scum of the earth.

You wanna sue everyone for anything

Anyone who had fast gains is probably on.

Training is so hard not on gear and everyone should know about it.

In saying that, I have never used and dont intend to, but at one stage I did move my deadlift from 210-270 in the space of a couple months. Not that I think it's awesome by any means but going by some of your comments you probably assume I'm on anyway.
 
Von - what are your best competition numbers & at what body weight?
Just asking so I can see if my theory is still holding up...
 
you forgot one bazza

Everyone who competes in a fed/league that doesnt do testing is on the juice
 
Shrill over reaction again.

Nowhere has it been said that fast gainers are drug users.

Nowhere has it been said that people who lift in an organisation without policy are drug users.

Nowhere has a specific allegation been leveled at another for their achievement, at least not by me.

For NAPARM

I benched 147.5kg @ 79.1 (fourth lift) as an under 23.
And I did 185 @ 90.3
They were the national level "postal" competitions and under the predecessor of what is now PA.
Plus a number of novelty for reps competitions.

No I haven't done a three lift comp yet as I was rather busy with erratic work that required travel, which did not make scheduled training possible.

I hope to lift this year, travel schedules permitting. Some of the places I have to frequent don't cater for the training and dietary conditions one might need to do their best. So the solution will be to set up some training facilities that might also benefit the local communities. We set up a medical clinic, so why not some gyms too. A clean gym.
 
Spritcha said:
I have never said that and never would. The respect goes both ways though right? Why raise questions over tested guys?
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im sorry, i was exaggerating. Attitude from some seems to be that all tested people are clean and all untested people are not. Both claims are wrong.
 
Sticky said:
Von, you don't say it directly, but you have definitely implied most, if not all of those.
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The original debate here concerned a policy gap that could be improved for the long term benefit of the sport and in line with community expectations.

The implication that people not protected by policy are PED abusers, is a conclusion that others have lept to.
 
NAPARM said:
That's some good benching Von, what would your max squat & dead be?
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There is no such thing as a max squat or max deadlift unless it gets three white lights in competition. I don't exist in these lifts yet as I have yet to complete a three lift competiton.

I've posted up some dodgy looking training vids, but I only ever use cardboard bars and balsa wood plates, always have a tennis ball hidden behind each knee and a skin coloured Metal suit.

I'm not sure why what was originally a policy debate is now funneling into a discussion about how much I lift. Is the debate now going to be "weighted" according to the achievements (or lack thereof) of the lifter?

If that's the case, then only Stephen's views are valid.
 
Was just curious as usually the strong natural guys don't complain about gear, they just lift & lift well.
It's normally the lower natural guys who go on about it & use it as an excuse as to why they aren't strong.
 
SP, not sure whether your argument holds.

Take Dick Pound, someone in the know for many years.

He could say nothing to respect major drug-tested sports, but he says much about the many in drug-tested sports who may be still cheating.

I think the Dick Pounds of the world are indeed important to ensure that the public does not become too naive.

Like most things, there is pros and cons in the stance we all take, but we must be free to go either way.

Saying that there is a good chance that some in a drug-tested fed are still cheating will never be deemed defamatory. Based on recent evidence, Lance Armstrong and Marion Jones and now peptides with no valid tests yet, the public now knows that drug tests are not fool-proof.

I tend to believe PA lifters are basically clean for a number of reasons, but mainly because there is so much choice for lifters in feds. In powerlifting, one who cheats in PA is perhaps worse than those cheating in other sports where there is just one fed and less choice.

Having said that, i would never be stupid enough to imply one fed is all clean or dirty. There are a number of reasons why each is attracted to different feds.

I like the fact that all of us, associated with different feds and different hormone levels, can communicate reasonably on the subject matter.

As for PA, i also feel it could improve the perception towards its leading lifters by reporting just who gets tested and when, as the USAPL does.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...8dHl1SS1pejZmS3o3VU4yUkg0T0ZtRVE&hl=en#gid=13


Having said that is Oni the Dick Pound of AusBB? Probably not.
 
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