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No carb meals

So to anyone who is following the CBL diet are you doing the full IF thing until you lift?
Are you having the funky coconut, creatine, caffeine, whey shakes constantly and is that all you consume until lifting?
 
Grippy said:
So to anyone who is following the CBL diet are you doing the full IF thing until you lift?
Are you having the funky coconut, creatine, caffeine, whey shakes constantly and is that all you consume until lifting?
Click to expand...
If you train in the afternoon you dont have to fast until then, only the first 2 hours after getting out of bed. According to the reseach this is because cortisol is highest upon waking and your body is primed to burn fat, you only really want to have pure fat. From memory the accelerator shakes posted in the book which you take in the morning have small amounts of protein but they also have large amounts of fat to prevent insulin from spiking.

When I trained on saturday mornings I would generally train with a black coffee with double cream, have the pwo shake with carbs and wouldnt backload until the night time. I would also backload the night before which was a tweak that was posted online after the book came out for people that train in the morning.

I tried CBL for acouple months and I couldnt get it to work as I wasnt able to smash enough carbs after training. I was also having smaller backloads everynight to try and compensate for not being able to get the carbs in after training. I work long hours, train late afternoon and by the time I get home, eat dinner it's already bed time.

I tried the coffee with coconut oil and didnt like it at all. I never bothered with the accelerator shakes posted in the book but I would generally have 1-2 black coffees with stevia + double cream until my first meal of the day which was 2-3 hours after waking up. I wasnt taking the large ammounts of creatine as suggested in the book.

Although im only a newb I did find myself maintaining weight and I was looking slimmer with the top of my abs starting to show but wasnt able to really bulk due to my life circumstances. If you train in the afternoon (morning is ok but not optimal), have plenty time to smash alot of carbs until bed time I think it is a good protocol to try but for me it didnt work.
 
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You can go full on fast until you lift but it's not essential. You basically follow a low insulin release, ketoic diet diet during the day until after you lift and then backload.

There are shakes and supps recommended and some people take them but you can do it all with real food and having breakfast, lunch and dinner.
 
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CaT_SPeW said:
whats his podcasts called? i cant find them on itunes.

also i have Jason Ferruggias Renegade diet ebook, isnt that the same thing?
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Podcasts are called 'dangerously hardcore' or something. To be honest I listened to a few and didn't find much helpful stuff as they seem to mostly talk shit. They will talk about how great backloading is and how crap everything else is without any practical recommendations. There's probably better info on the forums or of course the book if you haven't read it yet.

Renegade diet has similar principles with meal timing but tends to advocate 'cleaner' eating rather than hitting the poptarts and icecream. The following summary compares the two.
The Renegade Diet Vs. Carb Back-loading » Blog » Sean Hyson
 
Swervyn-Ervyn said:
I'll find the link..
Either way there is no magical post workout window..

It was either a YouTube vid or a podcast, I'll look for it tonight
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Agreed there is no magic protein window...

However there is a window where you can achieve glycogen supercompensation...

Cliffs - after heavily depleting your glycogen levels there is a window for enhancing the refueling of glycogen levels... (Reference somewhere in Lyle mcd books)
 
Romie said:
If you train in the afternoon you dont have to fast until then, only the first 2 hours after getting out of bed. According to the reseach this is because cortisol is highest upon waking and your body is primed to burn fat, you only really want to have pure fat. From memory the accelerator shakes posted in the book which you take in the morning have small amounts of protein but they also have large amounts of fat to prevent insulin from spiking.
Click to expand...

LOL

Ok that's a new one.... Fat prevents insulin from spiking...
 
Riddles said:
Podcasts are called 'dangerously hardcore' or something. To be honest I listened to a few and didn't find much helpful stuff as they seem to mostly talk shit. They will talk about how great backloading is and how crap everything else is without any practical recommendations. There's probably better info on the forums or of course the book if you haven't read it yet.

Renegade diet has similar principles with meal timing but tends to advocate 'cleaner' eating rather than hitting the poptarts and icecream. The following summary compares the two.
The Renegade Diet Vs. Carb Back-loading » Blog » Sean Hyson
Click to expand...


thanks mate.

my problem is that i often have to train at 8-9:00 at night about an hour or two after dinner
 
nazzysmith said:
LOL

Ok that's a new one.... Fat prevents insulin from spiking...
Click to expand...

Im not sure if its broscience or not but according to CBL author:
1) fats slows down digestion therefor reduce the insulin hit from a meal
2) carbs generally spike insulin more than the other 2 macros do so eat the other 2 during the day
 
Swervyn-Ervyn said:
You or me?

I have read the book..

He's protocol has merrit, anything that yields results for people and helps them cannot be sneezed at!!
Your missing my point, I'm not saying that its useless or garbage, more that he has changed his view on the "back" loading to more of a straight loading..
It doesn't work because of any special timing though, over a 24 hour period 2 diets of completely different timing schedules will yield the same results if the overall macro nutrient intake is the same for the given individual
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This quote is from a moderator on the CBL forums:

If you backload post workout you will be able to take advantage of the GLUT4 translocation from resistance training. The result is you will be able to store a lot more carbs in your muscles and it is very unlikely you will partition the nutrients to your fat cells. You will be able to eat a lot more and the margin of error is is a lot greater as opposed to not backloading after a training session.

The backload is for the next training session. The problem that can arise from backloading strictly post workout is that if you have an off day in between the backload and the next training session, you may deplete glycogen from being low carb and not have enough fuel in the tank for the training session. This is a big problem for a performance athlete like a powerlifter. The solution is to backload the night before, whether that is after a training session or not.

Here is how we tackle the issue:

1. Start with backloading only after workouts. You will be able to take advantage of GLUT4 translocation, you will be able to eat more, be in a more anabolic state post workout, and you are less likely to screw up. This is the preferred method.

An example of a training/backload schedule will look like this

Sunday: Off
Monday: Train/backload
Tuesday: Train/backload
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Train/backload
Friday: Train/backload
Saturday: Off

2. During your workouts that follow off days (Monday and Thursday from my example), try to take notice of your performance. Do you feel weak or sluggish? Are you struggling to finish your workout? You may not have enough glycogen. If you are training for performance (not aesthetics) you definitely will want to backload the night before each training session.

Your new training/backload schedule will look like this:

Sunday: Off/backload
Monday: train/backload
Tuesday: train
Wednesday: Off/backload
Thursday: train/backload
Friday: train
Saturday: off

The off day backloads (Sunday and Wednesday) will likely need to be smaller or else they can hurt fat loss. The reason is there is no exercise induced GLUT4 translocation in the muscles. You are more likely to screw up, that is why this is not the preferred method.

If you are training for aesthetics, you can consider doing the same, but you might be better off doing something else like shifting more of the workload to Friday and Tuesday or making those the more difficult body parts like back and legs. The reason is that fat loss is likely to be more important for this group and performance isn't as important.
Click to expand...
 
wingman said:
Im not sure if its broscience or not but according to CBL author:
1) fats slows down digestion therefor reduce the insulin hit from a meal
2) carbs generally spike insulin more than the other 2 macros do so eat the other 2 during the day
Click to expand...

Def broscience.... Alan Aragon is the one to read regarding these things....

Nothing conclusive to show any differences...

unless your a rat.......



However understanding supercompensation cycles is enough to warrant interest...
 
nazzysmith said:
Def broscience.... Alan Aragon is the one to read regarding these things....

Nothing conclusive to show any differences...

unless your a rat.......



However understanding supercompensation cycles is enough to warrant interest...
Click to expand...

Fat does slow down the absorption of carbs, Nothing new there.
Is there anything that's not broscience to you Nazzy?
 
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CBL really does just sound like a variation of a LG typical day with majority of carbs intaken post workout albeit with a few extra things like this fat intake during the day.

At the end of the day, you can't beat the laws of thermodynamics and meal frequency and timing is personal preference.

Nazzy: you are not going to get a supercompensated glycogen replenishment from one typical training session. This is the key premise in UD2. There is 3.5 days of less than 50g carbs per day and two high rep full body training sessions to ensure full glycogen depletion (if done right). Not going to happen with one typical PL session and reducing carbs for the morning/arvo especially if you carb loaded the night before.
 
Along the lines of this discussion I don't suppose anyone has a copy of the carb nite book they could lend me please? :)
 
Does CBL have protein and fat requirements for the off days and before the carb meal? I have read the book and may have missed it
 
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