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Thats it. ATHLETES lift weights to perform on the field, its why you cant compare their lifts.
To compare, you need to step onto the field with them lol
They lift weights to become better players, not better lifters. Its what AAA is based on.
Like Oli said, quite a few guys at PTC could beat some of the lifts performed by the All Blacks, but NONE could last 30 seconds on the field with them
To compare, you need to step onto the field with them lol
They lift weights to become better players, not better lifters. Its what AAA is based on.
Like Oli said, quite a few guys at PTC could beat some of the lifts performed by the All Blacks, but NONE could last 30 seconds on the field with them
surely their is a relation though - rugby league is about knocking people over, whilst it does require agility and explosive force I'd assume strength goes hand in hand with that.
Everytime I search for videos of rugby teams lifting on youtube the prevalence of medicine ball drills and stability balls is cringe worthy. These guys are the best who've been culled out and groomed since their tweens. Their traditional coaches know how to train them sure, but their strength coaches?
Most tackles involve 2 if not 3 of the opposite team. Big hits are generally lining people up and hitting them with a tonne of momentum. Big drivebacks are basically getting low and picking them up. David v goliath = go for the legs.
I've never played myself beyond the odd game at uni, but you don't need to be huge and strong to stop someone bigger than you. Centre of gravity and base of support play a biiiig role.
Strength will only get you so far, really. Look at fui fui, mason, hindmarsh etc... they are all big human beings but they don't break through the opposition defence a terrible amount. When you combine a big mofugga and speed/talent you end up with people like Lomu who dominate, but they are 'rare pokemon'.
Fair enough for a tackle but I can think of a places in football strength would kick in - a scrum, a maul (positions where little explosive strength can be gained).
Even if it were the case that strength was not relevant - why subject them to 4-5 sessions involving numerous swiss balls? why subject them to the gym at all?
Yes I'll accept that dedication to get to a 300kg squat will make you a better rugby player, but getting to 200 (piss easy for these guys) will help, and would certainly make for a better athlete than general gym work will.
Even if it were the case that strength was not relevant - why subject them to 4-5 sessions involving numerous swiss balls? why subject them to the gym at all?
Yes I'll accept that dedication to get to a 300kg squat will make you a better rugby player, but getting to 200 (piss easy for these guys) will help, and would certainly make for a better athlete than general gym work will.
Oli I think you need to have a deeper look at their actual training sessions. Rugby teams are big on weights you will probably find the use of Swiss balls for rehab/prehab purposes which is also a major training factor due to the loss of playing time/money due to injuries.
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I've only seen a handful training sessions for teams (unsuprisingly they're not made public). One was an all blacks session, South Africa and the other was USA rugby (not a great example because their team is a bit of a fail). They were a random mish-mash of stuff (like, they'd start off with woodchops with a plate, 'supermans' on the ground and a kind of partial lunge before moving into some dumbell press stuff and then squats).
I've found some UK programs though (Bath, Wales), they're generally a lot higher quality.
I've found some UK programs though (Bath, Wales), they're generally a lot higher quality.
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Of course strength is a factor, but so is technique.
In a scrum you've got a bunch of guys all trying to push against a bunch of other guys. You have to consider lining each players force production up, generating all that force is no use if you are not all directing it in the same way. Then the timing of that force production, if a forward misses a call you'll end up with steering scrum to his side etc etc.
If you've got a choice between increasing force generation alone with an increase in strength, or increasing force generation AND decreasing injury risk with skill and technique enhancement, which would you pick when dealing with millions of dollars worth of athletes?
Scrummaging is a high risk part of the game, and the injuries involved can be terrible - it isn't a part of the game that would be neglected.
I haven't commented on mauls because they seem to be much more opportunistic from what I've observed - once the opposition composes themselves enough to be competitive the ball breaks away.
I'm not disagreeing with you that strength plays an (important) role, but raw strength won't bring home trophies, sponsorships etc unless you are competing in power-lifting/weight lifting. Strength is important, but not the main event.
Then you also have to consider in season / off season. Off season is obviously where you want to do your mass and strength building. The Irish union side had their last game against Aus last night - they only have 5 weeks before they will be back into it.
So you have skills training and overall coaching which will be the majority of time spent with players, aerobic conditioning and strength training get an okay look in and would, I imagine, generally share time (with the S&C coach). So you have limited contact, and two separate facets of physiological performance to cover, all while making sure you don't impact on game day performance.
Long post is long, but I am really interested in this field (athletes / strength and conditioning) so any excuse. If anyone has any corrections or reading material/vids lemme know eh.
I really want a scrum machine, too
Chris I also really want a scrum machine and I dont even play anymore
I'm not saying that strength is the only factor, but it is important, and important enough that many rugby coaches, along with those of other sports should probably keep up to date with it, rather than adding it in with bizarre 90s core crap.
Lets face it, here in australia we dont even let athletes under 16 (and more realistically 18) touch weights because we're afraid we're going to smash up some growth plates. Bro science much?
I'm not saying that strength is the only factor, but it is important, and important enough that many rugby coaches, along with those of other sports should probably keep up to date with it, rather than adding it in with bizarre 90s core crap.
Lets face it, here in australia we dont even let athletes under 16 (and more realistically 18) touch weights because we're afraid we're going to smash up some growth plates. Bro science much?
I was just going to tack this on to my previous post but you already replied.
Quick look at pre-season prep for gloucester.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJJwo87Q_zE[/ame]
Can't comment on young athlete development because I came up through athletics and soccer, strength training wasn't a big thing for either.
I would agree that it is definitely something that could be overlooked - especially if you aren't picked up by a development squad / rep team.
Quick look at pre-season prep for gloucester.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJJwo87Q_zE[/ame]
Can't comment on young athlete development because I came up through athletics and soccer, strength training wasn't a big thing for either.
I would agree that it is definitely something that could be overlooked - especially if you aren't picked up by a development squad / rep team.
Goosey
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***
Want to get better at a sport?
Learn the sport.
Practice the sport.
Play the sport.
Receive guidance on how to improve in the sport.
Put the guidance to use in the sport.
Practice the sport.
Play the sport and so on.
Want to get stronger?
Engage in all various forms of resistance exercise.
Over months, years, decades, etc. different forms of resistance exercise come into vogue for various reasons - the most simple of which is fad and fashion.
To wit, in my opinion, there are lots of ways to get stronger. The key is to train wisely, systematically and progressively.
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Four people standing around some bloke doing bench presses with dumb-bells while balancing plates?
I'd be questioning why?
The problem is we watch these people and cherry pick difference modes, it doesn't work.
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Interesting, in the paper today regarding afl; speed and athleticism has improved, while *fundamental skills are low and hamstring injury is high.
Most of these players are quick in spite of their training rather than because of it.
Posted via Mobile Device
Want to get better at a sport?
Learn the sport.
Practice the sport.
Play the sport.
Receive guidance on how to improve in the sport.
Put the guidance to use in the sport.
Practice the sport.
Play the sport and so on.
Want to get stronger?
Engage in all various forms of resistance exercise.
Over months, years, decades, etc. different forms of resistance exercise come into vogue for various reasons - the most simple of which is fad and fashion.
To wit, in my opinion, there are lots of ways to get stronger. The key is to train wisely, systematically and progressively.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device
Four people standing around some bloke doing bench presses with dumb-bells while balancing plates?
I'd be questioning why?
The problem is we watch these people and cherry pick difference modes, it doesn't work.
Posted via Mobile Device
Interesting, in the paper today regarding afl; speed and athleticism has improved, while *fundamental skills are low and hamstring injury is high.
Most of these players are quick in spite of their training rather than because of it.
Posted via Mobile Device
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Thats what the OP is doing. Its obviously not working for him. Hence this thread.
I will always select the kid with the most ability, because I know I can make him a better athlete.
Unfortunately most recruiters dont think like me.
I dont care how fast your 20m sprint time is if you cant find the pill. I can make you faster, I cant make you smarter.
So Andy, I actually agree with you, but as long as recruiters are judging young players on 20m time, 3k time trial, beep test, vertical, agility etc, its what I have to do for youngsters.
Maybe I should start a skills school lol. In 1978 we won the flag. I played full forward and kicked 78 goals12 behinds in 12 games. The following year I was at St Kilda.
Players cant kick today, off topic, I know
Unfortunately most recruiters dont think like me.
I dont care how fast your 20m sprint time is if you cant find the pill. I can make you faster, I cant make you smarter.
So Andy, I actually agree with you, but as long as recruiters are judging young players on 20m time, 3k time trial, beep test, vertical, agility etc, its what I have to do for youngsters.
Maybe I should start a skills school lol. In 1978 we won the flag. I played full forward and kicked 78 goals12 behinds in 12 games. The following year I was at St Kilda.
Players cant kick today, off topic, I know