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Anyone have an idea how much vitamin t the old school guys of the 60's and 70's took? Arnie, Sergio, Serge, Franco and Corney, Draper etc?
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my small team of capo lifters also lift with opo [ drug tested ] most over the years have been tested without a problem dont asume all capo lifters are on and dont asume other feds lifters are not . in all sports you will find someone looking for the edge .
 
Anyone have an idea how much vitamin t the old school guys of the 60's and 70's took? Arnie, Sergio, Serge, Franco and Corney, Draper etc?
Posted via Mobile Device

That's like trying to find out how tall the governator actually is.
Having said that; no where near as much as they do now.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
I agree with Andy.

Back in the day it was test, dbol, primobolan, winstrol.

There was also this WONDERFUL oral called, I cant remember, but it was loaded with vitamins, it had vitamin A so you couldnt take too much....Nilevar, thats it. How funny, the steroid wasnt dangerous, the vitamin was.

Very good drug.
 
Nilevar was one of the first oral steroids available in the United States. It was essentially Searle´s answer to Ciba´s Dianabol (Methandrostenolone), which was released that same year. In fact, with respect to Nilevar´s effects on weight gain, anabolism, and water-retention, it is frequently compared to Dianabol. Seven years prior, to the release of Nilevar, the Mayo Clinic heralded the dramatic effectiveness of cortisone in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis. This in turn stimulated tremendous interest in all facets of steroid chemistry, endocrinology, and related fields. G. D. Searle & Co. promptly initiated a major effort in steroid research, with the objective of discovering better steroidal compounds than were previously available, and new steroids that could be used for conditions for which no other compounds were available. This effort resulted in the introduction of Norethandrolone, marketed in 1956 as Nilevar, the first anabolic agent with a favorable separation between protein building and virilization (which is the development of androgynous characteristics). (1) Paradoxically, in men, only weak androgenic effects are found (possibly because it is deactivated by 5-alpha-reductase, which we don´t need to delve into, just remember that in men, only mild androgenic effects are generally seen), though in women virilization is very common (for women this would mean developing male physiological characteristics: a deepening of the voice, the growth of extra body hair, and a tendency to leave the toilet seat up). I wouldn´t recommend this drug for use by female athletes, not only due to these side- effects but also due to some issues with infertility, which are also possible in females, though probably not with males(5)(6) . The anabolic effect of this drug is moderate, and this is probably due to its moderately strong binding to the Androgen Receptor (this makes it quite different from Dianabol, which has a poor binding to the Androgen Receptor) as well as it´s ability to stimulate protein synthesis (which it has in common with Dianabol) and stop protein catabolism (7). Nilevar was Searle´s first unique entry into the world of AAS, and it was this drug that eventually led to the research and develpoment of the much less androgenic and estrogenic/progesteronic Oxandrolone (Anavar) a decade later, and the resulting decline in popularity and use of Nilevar.
As you will see, though, Nilevar still has it´s own niche and purpose in athletics and bodybuilding, and can be an important part of either a cutting or bulking stack...but I´m getting ahead of myself, and we need to understand a few basics about Nilevar first.
A quick look at the molecular structure of this drug tells us that it is a 19-nor steroid, which means that it could/should possess some of the same characteristics as Nandrolone, which is why it is often referred to as "Oral Deca". Although this is a gross oversimplification of this drug, it´s the easiest place to start when describing this compound. Norethandrolone, shares many characteristics with the injectable Nandrolones; it aromatizes and it is also a progestin. This means that it can convert to estrogen (since it aromatizes) and also fits into and stimulates the progesterone receptor (being a progestin). And unfortunately, progestins fall into the category of being severely gonadotrophin suppressive compounds) (3), and it also means that most ancillaries aren´t going to have 100% of their desired effect, and Nolvadex especially won´t help, and could actually hurt you by increasing progesterone receptors (4). The 19-nor structure of this compound, very much like injectable Nandrolone, indicates that this drug can shut down your natural Testosterone production and HPTA (which is the term used to describe a whole host of interdependent hormones and processes within your endocrine system). It does all of this while also causing side effects such as gyno, acne, and water retention (the dreaded "smooth look"). If I were going to use Nilevar, I´d strongly consider having anti-progesteronic compounds on hand (preferably Bromocriptine which I´d take at a dose of 2.5mgs/day, and perhaps some Letrozole, which I´d use at .5mg/day to fight water retention and estrogen) as well as the typical ancillaries used with other AAS, as those generally only fight/eliminate the process that causes AAS to convert to estrogen or fight/eliminate the estrogen itself. Sadly, we´re fighting side effects from both estrogen and progesterone when we use Nilevar. On the positive side of being a 19-nor compound, it must be noted that you also can reap many of the positive effects of other such compounds including a relatively strong bind to the Androgen Receptor, which is positively correlated with lypolysis (fat-burning). (2). Although at first glance, I´d say that you should consider Nilevar as a "bulking" type of drug, I´m speculating that if you use something to keep the water-retention to a minimum while using this compound (for this purpose, I´ve already reccomended Femera) , it can successfully be used in a cutting cycle. Users who experience joint pains may find similar relief with Nilevar as they would with Deca, sadly, though, as Nilevar is an oral steroid, it can´t be used for the same length of time as Deca, so it´s use for joint relief is probably contraindicated by possible issues with hepatoxicity (Liver Toxicity) stemming from its being 17 alpha-alkylated. On the bright side, since it is orally active and not estrified like the injectable 19-nor drugs (like Deca), it´s metabolites will most likely clear your body in much less time than with the injectables, the most common estimate being roughly 5 weeks. I´ll also speculate that a novel use for this drug may be in the middle/end portion of a heavy bulking or powerlifting cycle (which doesn´t include another 19-nor compound), when Nilevar can be used for a month or so when the heaviest lifting is involved, and the joint relief (and obviously the anabolic effect) it provides could allow the athlete to lift heavier than would normally be possible. There are many other orals on the market which can be used for anabolism, cutting, bulking, and all related effects, but none that will provide the joint relief that Nilevar should/could. For that reason, Nilevar will always have a purpose in heavy cycles, if it can be obtained.
Before we consider putting it in our next stack, it should be noted that this compound is rarely (if ever, anymore) counterfeited, and even more rarely seen on the black market. It´s not in high demand, and in fact has been taken off the shelves in the USA (and is primarily marketed in France, but also in Australia and Switzerland) but taking it off the American shelves certainly doesn´t mean it´s not useful. Allegedly, Arthur Jones was very fond of putting his athletes on it (instead of the more popular Dianabol), and Bill Pearl almost certainly used it as his main bulking agent, and for an entire cycle (10mgs/day) before a Mr. Universe win, and I wouldn´t be surprised if Casey Viator and the Mentzer brothers dabbled in Nilevar. Based on what these guys looked like, I´d venture a guess that this drug was (and possibly still is) most commonly used for bulking, and by the larger powerlifters and other athletes not worried about staying in a particular weight class. Your best bet for finding this stuff is either through a source who has a "connection" at a local pharmacy, and you´ll probably be looking at a price of .20-.40 cents per 10mg tablet (it only comes in 10mg tablets). As I said, it´s not exactly readily available, so that could create a bit of a sellers market& on the other hand, since it´s not in high demand it could be a buyers market. In either case, I wouldn´t be thrilled with paying more than .25cents per tab.
Nilevar Cycle

So lets see where that leaves us in terms of designing a cycle using Nilevar:
We´d want to have a form of testosterone in our cycle, regardless of whether we´re going to use Nilevar to bulk up or to get cut, remember, Nilevar will probably reduce your natural testosterone levels to nothing. So lets say, to start off, we´re looking at using injectable testosterone at roughly 400-500mgs/week, to make sure that we replace the testosterone that we´re not going to produce naturally. In a bulking cycle we´d use a long ester testosterone (Testosterone Cypionate or Testosterone Enanthenate), while in a cutting cycle we´d probably want to consider the use of a shorter ester (Testosterone Propionate is the most popular for cutting cycles, as anecdotally, it seems to produce less water retention). We´re going to avoid any form of injectable Nandrolone (Nandrolone Decanoate, Nandrolone Phenyl-propionate, etc... ) as well as any form of Trenbolone, in this cycle, as we don´t want to stack 2 progestins together (and Nandrolone and Trenbolone, are both progestins). So that leaves us with a host of other drugs we can stack with our Nilevar and Testosterone. I´d suggest using Equipoise (Boldenone Undeclyenate) on a bulking cycle, at 400-600mgs. This will serve the dual purpose of keeping your red blood count high (which is important for anabolism) as well as keeping your appetite high. In a cutting cycle, I´d suggest the use of Masteron (Drostanolone), at 400-500mgs/week, probably injected with the same frequency as your Testosterone Propionate. Now, I´d probably suggest keeping Bromocriptine on hand, and using it if you start to hold too much water or develop gynocomastia. I´d say that 1.25mgs-2.5mgs/day is enough( which is going to prevent progesteronic side effects, as well as stimulate fat burning), and this recommendation is regardless of whether you choose to use Nilevar in a bulking or cutting cycle. We´re not going to use any other orals in this cycle, either, as we´ve already discussed Nilevar´s hepatoxic properties, and we don´t want to stress our livers unnecessarily. Unlike most orals, I´d suggest using Nilevar at 20-40mgs/day in the middle of either cycle, as opposed to the beginning, so that the bulk of your heavy lifting is done while you reap the benefits of the joint protection Nilevar provides. Here are our 2 cycles, the first for bulking, and the second for cutting:
Week Testosterone EQ Nilevar (Cyp or Enanth)



Week Testosterone Masteron Nilevar (Propionate)



Proper Post Cycle Therapy needs to be followed after either of these cycles (or any cycle containing Nilevar) and personally I would use: 500IU/day of HCG for 3 weeks and 20mgs of Nolvadex for 4-6 weeks starting one week after cessation of the cycle.
Remember that both of these cycles should include Bromocriptine´s use at 1.25-2.5mgs/day to combat progesteronic side effects, and .5-1mg/day of Femera to combat water retention and estrogenic side effects
Nilevar (Norethandrolone) Profile

[17-alpha-ethyl-19-nor-4-androstene-3-one, 17b-ol]
Molecular Weight: 302.4558
Formula: C20 H30 O2
Melting Point: 130-136
Manufacturer: Searle
Release Date (in USA): 1956
Effective Dose: 20-40mgs/day
Active life: 12-16 hours
Detection Time: 5 weeks
Anabolic/Androgenic ratio (range): 100-200/22-55
References:



  1. Steroids. 1992 Dec;57(12):624-30.
  2. Xu X, et al. "The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells." Endocrinology 1990 Feb;126(2):1229
  3. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 2003 Apr;58(4):506-12
  4. Gynecol Oncol. 1999 Mar;72(3):331-6.
  5. J Reprod Fertil. 1966 Dec;12(3):489-99
  6. Contraception. 1975 Feb;11(2):193-207
  7. Lancet. 1958 Oct 25;2(7052):885-6


  1. 500mgs - 400mgs
  2. 500mgs - 400mgs
  3. 500mgs - 400mgs
  4. 500mgs - 400mgs - 40mgs
  5. 500mgs - 400mgs - 40mgs
  6. 500mgs - 400mgs - 40mgs
  7. 500mgs - 400mgs - 40mgs
  8. 500mgs - 400mgs - 40mgs
  9. 500mgs - 400mgs - 40mgs
  10. 500mgs - 400mgs
  11. 500mgs - 400mgs
  12. 500mgs - 400mgs


  1. 500mgs - 600mgs
  2. 500mgs - 600mgs
  3. 500mgs - 600mgs
  4. 500mgs - 600mgs - 40mgs
  5. 500mgs - 600mgs - 40mgs
  6. 500mgs - 600mgs - 40mgs
  7. 500mgs - 600mgs - 40mgs
  8. 500mgs - 600mgs - 40mgs
  9. 500mgs - 600mgs - 40mgs
  10. 500mgs - 600mgs
  11. 500mgs - 600mgs
  12. 500mgs - 600mgs
 
I know its a lot of reading, but the information is as good as you'll get.

Notice he only mentions BB's from 30 years ago.
 
my small team of capo lifters also lift with opo [ drug tested ] most over the years have been tested without a problem dont asume all capo lifters are on and dont asume other feds lifters are not . in all sports you will find someone looking for the edge .

First let me say I agree with you - you can't assume either way.

But at the same time, the more stringent and better financially resourced the drug testing regime employed, the safer it is to assume lifters are not on drugs. This is exactly why people argue that drug-tested athletes in Australia are at a performance disadvantage compared to some other countries - ASADA is a well-run operation and the government puts a fair bit of resourcing into sports anti-doping.

What does OPO's drug testing regime consist of? I ask this honestly and without judgement. I couldn't find it on the net.

There is potentially a huge gulf between organisations which adopt a WADA compliant policy and are subject to the Australian National Anti-Doping Testing Scheme (ie ASADA does the testing) and those who do not, but do some other form of drug testing.

Testing procedure (under WADA you have to be pretty much naked for the piss test and sample control is ridiculous because of legal challenges in the early days ), quality of labs, determination of sanctions, types of prohibited substances and methods, range of offences (eg does the policy cover attempted use/possession/importation/refusal to test) - the WADA protocol is more stringent on all these issues than any other standard.

For example, if you look at the prohibited list for AWPC/AAPF, it only covers steroids, clen and testosterone. There's whole families of performance enhancing drugs not covered by this list which would provide a performance benefit in powerlifting, notably stimulants and HGH.

EDIT found the AAPF testing policy: http://worldpowerliftingcongress.com/AAPF%20Instructions.htm

Draw from that what you will.

The other factor is the extent of testing and whether the athletes are on a registered testing pool and able to be tested out-of-competition without warning. The Australian political landscape does make this quite difficult for multi-federation sports however because only ASC accredited sporting bodies can access funding for testing, and ASC has, for quite some time, only accredited one body per sport.

If you're going to have testing, a proper system has to be implemented and it has to be adequately resourced.
 
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Nope, its from a drug user/tester who writes under another name.Doest have a book out as far as I know. He's VERY experimental with his drug taking lol

I tried Nilevar in the mid 90's, it was labeled Anaplex, and his review is pretty much spot on with what I found. It was made by Coopers and they were 5mg tablets.

I dont believe anyone still makes it.
 
I reckon the Olympics and Tour de France have more drug users than a Jay and Silent Bob movie.

People still gonna use. I agree the testing in Russia or Ukraine is not as good as Australia, I have spoken to PA lifters about this.

Watcha gunna do? Why dont our top Juniors go overseas to compete at the Junior Worlds? I know they qualify? Whats that? Waste of time!

I thought IPF was tested?

I'm only joking, were all grown ups, we know damn well what happens over there.

Good luck at the Nats big fella
 
I reckon the Olympics and Tour de France have more drug users than a Jay and Silent Bob movie.

People still gonna use. I agree the testing in Russia or Ukraine is not as good as Australia, I have spoken to PA lifters about this.

Watcha gunna do? Why dont our top Juniors go overseas to compete at the Junior Worlds? I know they qualify? Whats that? Waste of time!

I thought IPF was tested?

I'm only joking, were all grown ups, we know damn well what happens over there.

Good luck at the Nats big fella

Thanks, haven't qualified this year, but will be there volunteering and cheering on others.

The anti-doping is a game of catch-up for sure. But if the resourcing - not just at the user level, but the supply level, is there it can be somewhat effective. Maybe not in all sports at all levels, but enough to provide a decent level of certainty for amateurs wanting to compete in a tested sport.
 
strong enough i am not sure of o p o test proceedure their pres will be at our nats if your there he will tell you .some years ago i was talking to an elite athlete re the 100 metres he stated that was the fairest event at the games when i asked why he said because everyone was on gear lol .capo has gone from equipt added raw maybe the next step is to have tested and untested opo have comps were you can enter as tested or not those that enter untested ,like my girls do so to miss the 50 dollar test fee .for me i just want milk that tastes like milk
 
$50 testing fee, and the athlete has to pay for it? I don't blame your girls for entering the untested comps!

For the sake of comparison, it costs $702 for a full ASADA screen, plus the hourly rates of ASADA testing officials and chaperones (to ensure that the person actually deposits their own urine). I think it works out to be more like $1000 per test once all costs are factored in. This gives you an idea of the cost of proper drug testing.
 
$50 testing fee, and the athlete has to pay for it? I don't blame your girls for entering the untested comps!

For the sake of comparison, it costs $702 for a full ASADA screen, plus the hourly rates of ASADA testing officials and chaperones (to ensure that the person actually deposits their own urine). I think it works out to be more like $1000 per test once all costs are factored in. This gives you an idea of the cost of proper drug testing.

which is pretty much why if govt doesn't pay, then proper drug testing is unaffordable, and part of the reason why PA members can't compete elsewhere.
If we want to stay ASC accredited to get ASADA funded tests we need to abide by the rules of not lifting in federations without a WADA policy.

And PTC, Australian lifters do go to Juniors worlds and compete pretty well
We had 6 lifters last year.
http://www.powerliftingaustralia.com/Results/2009/2009results21.htm

I think the main reason more people don't go is not because they are scared of the russians and ukrainians, but because of $$$.
If you're not an olympic sport it's pretty hard to get sponsorship or govt funding to compete overseas, so it's pretty much user pays
 
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which is pretty much why if govt doesn't pay, then proper drug testing is unaffordable, and part of the reason why PA members can't compete elsewhere.
If we want to stay ASC accredited to get ASADA funded tests we need to abide by the rules of not lifting in federations without a WADA policy.

And PTC, Australian lifters do go to Juniors worlds and compete pretty well
We had 6 lifters last year.
http://www.powerliftingaustralia.com/Results/2009/2009results21.htm

I think the main reason more people don't go is not because they are scared of the russians and ukrainians, but because of $$$.
If you're not an olympic sport it's pretty hard to get sponsorship or govt funding to compete overseas, so it's pretty much user pays

Macmad im guessing you have something to do with pa or at least compete there from what i have read... What about people on things like hormone replacement for medical conditions? Are they not aloud to lift in your fed?
 
Macmad im guessing you have something to do with pa or at least compete there from what i have read... What about people on things like hormone replacement for medical conditions? Are they not aloud to lift in your fed?

if you can convince ASDMAC ( Australian sports drug medical advisory committee ) that the hormone replacement is a genuine medical necessity then your could apply for a TUE ( therapeutic use exemption )
ASDMAC - Apply for Theraputic Use Exemption

This applys to any sport that has WADA drug testing.

I don't like your chances of succeeding though.
 
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