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training supplements
- Thread starter xlgym
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- supplements training
You do get the occasional popping up, with truely innovative ingredients.
Hopefully this will be the trend.
Fadi
...
jack3d ingredients:
Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate, Creatine Monohydrate, Beta Alanine, Caffeine, 1,3-Dimethylamylamine (Geranium [Stem]), Schizandrol A
Pretty no nonsense ingredients in my humble opinion.
Oh and I do get better pumps...slightly better.. its okay if you dont believe me
Hello there ebagz,
We have not met you and I, so forgive me if my question to you has already been asked by someone else.
I was wondering if you take the above mentioned supplements all at the same time? I'm asking this because I'm seeing two compounds in particular that do a great job...in cancelling each other out. Now obviously if you are getting the results you desire, than I would suggest to you that you may amplify these results by separating the ingredients in question apart. Here I'm speaking of none other than caffeine and Arginine.
As you are probably aware, Arginine is great for bringing high blood pressure down, and it does that because of its ability to dilate the blood vessels (through its NO pathway). On the other hand, caffeine would raise the blood pressure by the restriction (narrowing) of blood vessels and of course by helping to release adrenaline, which as you know is a catabolic hormone.
I'm not here to judge your supplement regime Sir; only to outline few points and bring them to your attention. I wish you all the best.
Fadi.
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Fadi,
I think he was simply indicating the ingredients of Jacked - have I missed something?
Yeah agree, but he is also indicating to take the ingredients separately if possible...
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Cheers fadi for your info.. very interesting.. I am taking them at the same time as they are in jack3d, so I cant separate. I thought i'd look into what you were saying and. I read a few studies... arginine is used in two different metabolic pathways: arginase which converts arginine to ornithine and urea, and the other nitric oxide synthase, which converts arginine to nitric oxide. The results indicated that caffeine has an inhibitory effect on arginase.. which left more arginine available for use by the nitric oxide synthase pathway.
It makes sense to me, if they cancelled each other out I wouldn't feel better pumps or more energy.. or both. And why would almost all pre workout supplements use these two compounds if they cancelled each other out? I respect your opinion and it makes perfect sense but i'll have to disagree based on the research I have seen.
It makes sense to me, if they cancelled each other out I wouldn't feel better pumps or more energy.. or both. And why would almost all pre workout supplements use these two compounds if they cancelled each other out? I respect your opinion and it makes perfect sense but i'll have to disagree based on the research I have seen.
Gauche
Member
Carhart I know what I'm buying when I buy raw product from austrlalia. Do you know what your buying when you buy from an unregulated country that sells unhealthy health supps more then any other country? I'll say it again NZ has the best WPI processing plant in te world. NZ and tasmania share beautiful natural green pastures where the cattle graze freely. Australia has tighter laws on the dairy industry. America doesn't have that. Americans are more likley to buy the cheapest protein sourced from china or wherever. Australian suppliers brag of their quality, American suppliers brag about miracle results, pumps and easy muscle gains.
I honesty believe any supplment that promotes better pumps should go on the shelf for good along with the bicep routine and the caffine!
I honesty believe any supplment that promotes better pumps should go on the shelf for good along with the bicep routine and the caffine!
I do recall reading somewhere (sorry but don't quote me on this) caffeines vasoconstriction properties are slightly negatedduring training... hence the inclusion of Arginine and Caffeine in many pre-WO supps.
Funnily enough, from the studies I've read, Arginine has been proven not to increase NO.
Shrek
Fucked up Kunce
that's what I said. Not to be used together.
Gaucheharbor, I'd honestly like to have a discussion with you, however you haven't answered my questions. I have answered your questions and indicated to you that good supplement companies in the US, will always test their raws and in most cases be more than happy to provide an independent COA. Its always been a big issue over in the US and many of the smaller companies have been caught out, including some bigger ones.
How do you know what is actually in your supplements when purchasing from Aus?
Your statements are inclined towards one thing, when you state that the US (correct that it is unregulated) sells "unhealthy" supps - whats unhealthy about it?
If I have a COA from the US and a COA from AUS, stating exactly the same ingredients and possible impurities, whats the difference?
In addition, when US companies buy from the same place, how is the Aussie product superior in quality as you have indicated?
Lost in translation - lol
.I was initially confused when Fadi, stated that the compounds should ideally be used separately, however this isn't possible as the listed compounds are all in the same product.
Gauche
Member
Thus discussion started on "cheap" USA supplements. I would be confident that all the cheap supplements that have been mentioned would be at a lower quality to those which i purchase at a cheaper price.
I also think that all the supplements mentioned are a waste of money not just because of the ingredients but the packaging you pay for.
I also strongly stated my views of aus companies.
Now when it comes to quality difference I have pointed out 1 what I buy 2 why I believe the product is superior, from the cost to the process on how the protein is made(grass to the cow to the plant) 3 the lack of control in the supplement industry which leaves doubt in my mind about those companies especially after reading their advertising gimmicks.
What you want is a study? Some hard evidence that Australian and NZ protein is superior? Well I don't have that... I don't have access to such studies which would cement my point and pursued you to support your own country. What I do have is experience with the two different products. I have purchased American, I have fallen for the gimmicks and massive pump promises. I have wasted more money on that stuff then what I've spent on aus made protein to date.
I haven't been lied to or tricked by ANY Australian products. Just a pure promise for the highest quality protein which I have always received.
Noobs do you have any protein articles in your database of wisdom? Anything that can back my statements? I know that the American dairy industry is disgusting and what the cows are fed and for one I wouldn't purchase American products just so I'm not supporting the mass producing that goes on.
I've seen independent studies that are flawed. I know what is in my aus supplements because when I buy a kilo of wpi I get a kilo of wpi. I don't buy the latest superpump or musclejuice. I buy raw ingredients and select very carefully what I put into my body. I didn't use to... It came from myself getting smarter and listening to people like Fadi, noobs, Dave.
I will get in contact with my friend who imports NZ protein and sells it through eBay. I'm sure he has the evidence you so desire.
Rant over... I don't even know what I typed now and iPhones are to hard to go back an proof read so what's said is said if it doesn't make sense Dave or shrek... You guys edit it for me lol
Thank you, you have answered my question, with "I believe".
Can anyone provide further information?
"Independent studies", sorry I'm not sure what you mean.
When you state you "buy 1kg of WPI and get 1kg of WPI"
I don't understand your statement, please clarify.
Its good to hear that you no longer fall for gimmicks as such, the supplement industry can be shady as hell, but no doubt a lesson learnt.
I think its important to wade through the garbage of supps available and get to the products that are actually backed by science, user experiences (logs) and do your own research and then make up your own mind.
Not all companies are shady though, although some have done some very nasty things in the past.
Can anyone provide further information?
"Independent studies", sorry I'm not sure what you mean.
When you state you "buy 1kg of WPI and get 1kg of WPI"
I don't understand your statement, please clarify.
Its good to hear that you no longer fall for gimmicks as such, the supplement industry can be shady as hell, but no doubt a lesson learnt.
I think its important to wade through the garbage of supps available and get to the products that are actually backed by science, user experiences (logs) and do your own research and then make up your own mind.
Not all companies are shady though, although some have done some very nasty things in the past.
Gaucheharbor.. you do not pay cheaper than what I pay... for anything.. yours may or may not be of better or lesser quality.. but you pay a premium for that quality aussie goodness.. I get nice packaging and flavouring.. you get big ziplock bags of unflavoured powders with a sticker on it.. you pay more.. I pay less.. Some may prefer unflavoured.. How does your bcaas taste in water?? mmm yum, pretty sour? lol
You can say yours is better quality but the fact is I pay less to get the same/similar products delivered from overseas then you do for your products which are already in the country. Yes its because the dollar.. but the dollar would have to be pretty shocking before it would be cheaper to buy here.
You can say yours is better quality but the fact is I pay less to get the same/similar products delivered from overseas then you do for your products which are already in the country. Yes its because the dollar.. but the dollar would have to be pretty shocking before it would be cheaper to buy here.
Gauche
Member
Spoke to my mate he is digging something up for us. France and NZ lead the protein industry along with aus at close second. NZ is one of the biggest pure protein exporters in the world and they do have the best processing plant in the world. The Australian and NZ dairy industry is strictly controlled. He went onto say the American protein is of poor quality and the dairy industry is shite over there. Anywhere that has lucious green grass and free roaming cattle is a good sign of quality he said.
Gauche
Member
I strongly disagree. Your buying jacked and trifecta stacks and comparing it to my supplments? In the words of Samuel L "ain't no f&$@ing ballpark neither" my bcaa's mix well into my protein with my cocao and steiva. I also don't have any artificial flavouring in my supplements.
What's your diet like? You have mentioned your 136 kilo's and I'm curious as to what you sting plan is and why you feel you need trifecta stacks and jacked to hit nutrition goals? Is it about nutrition for you though or is it about supplments?
im referring to aminos, bcass creatine etc.. not the trifecta stack which by the way I am saving for when I get back to a decent weight.. and again ive said it may be a waste of money but after reading reviews and logs decided id like to try it. If you read my log you'd know for the last 7 months my diet has been absolute rubbish and ive put on 15kg as a consequence most of it being fat. Also if you have read some of my posts you'd know that iv'e said I don't need any of these supplements, diet training and rest is all that is needed. But I am happy to pay for some supps as I feel I benefit from them. And this morning I weighed in @ 131.5, which again is in my log along with what I ate today which will be similar everyday from now until I leave sydney. By the way why bring up my weight and ask about my diet.. I know im overweight but whats that got to do with the subject at hand.. if you want to talk about my weight or diet in future please refer to my thread.
I agree, however you indicated:
Lets use ON Whey as an example.
If ON used the same supplier as say Bulk Nutrients, which is of better quality?
Over commericalised, probably, however I know for a fact that ON use independent labs to test for purity, in addition to receiving a COA from their supplier.
Do Bulk Nutrients? No, they rely only a COA from the supplier.
He did state that supps should not be relied upon.
Besides any idiot should know this.
If your training, diet and sleep is in check, you can make gains without ANY supps.
Personally I think LG are a garbage company, but at least its not Pink Magic he's trying... (just my opinion, don't mean to flame).
Anyway, Ebagz keep us updated when you do get on your Trifecta Stack, I'd be interested to see how it goes.
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