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Speed or Dynamic effort training

[QUOTEWhat if we could target his weakness....lockout/speed and make it stronger WHILE were still benching. What would happen then?][/QUOTE]

Markos what about targetting weak points such as being weak off the chest in the bench with chains to make the lockout still worked hard whilst still lifting heavy from the chest (no speed work just accomodating resistance). Would not this be similar to Olivers beliefs? The weakpoint is trained but the strong point gets trained properly too. Or extra work for the weak part of the lift such as floor presses for weak lockouts etc.
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Markos,

All I've ever done is squat, deadlift and bench and applied some basic periodisation. When I'm low I drop the volume, and this approach really hasn't shown any signs of failing so I'm not inclined to change it.

Im sure it would take me a lot further if my cycles weren't always interrupted by exams.
 
Your spot on. Tonight alone I had Nick, Mick, Jason and Jimmy doing floor presses with chains. Nick managed 145kg x 2 by the way.

I had Max, Alen, Sean, Dave, Dim and James doing bands.

We also use bands and chains for speed work, not just lockout work.

We do everything, Max uses DB bench press for repetition work, he also pauses every single rep when he's benching.

He has a strong lockout. His starting strength is now improving at an alarming rate.

Every single rep he pauses, from 20kg. On Saturday he does speed work for an hour.

He started training like this after Albury. He paused 95kg there, he failed 100kg, 3 weeks later he paused 105kg, we'll wait and see if the speed keeps helping him by the Nats in August.
 
Oliver04 said:
Markos,

All I've ever done is squat, deadlift and bench and applied some basic periodisation. When I'm low I drop the volume, and this approach really hasn't shown any signs of failing so I'm not inclined to change it.

Im sure it would take me a lot further if my cycles weren't always interrupted by exams.
Click to expand...

Your already very strong for your age Oli, its just that more can be achieved quicker by targeting weaknesses. You may not be a slow lifter so the benefits might be minimal.

Have someone time your bench, load 60% of your 1RM and see if you can get 3 in 3. If not, there is room for improvement, if you smash it, your speed is okay.
 
dave said:
For the average trainee who lift to be stronger than normal and for health benefits then rapid lifts (especially with high ground reaction forces or rapid joint movements) will degrade their joints much faster (ask Fadi about his joints from Olympic Lifting) and therefore they will not be really ifting for health in the end.
Click to expand...
Agree.

PS: Forced to stop weightlifting due to recurrent joint injuries and muscle imbalance which is in itself is causing preventable joint/muscle injuries. Back to bodybuilding on Monday the 31st of May 2010.


Fadi.
 
I should have mentioned this earlier, but I forgot.

Nick and Kelly train together. Nick is 30kg heavier. He is a stronger squatter and deadlifter. Kelly has benched 161kg, Nicks best is 150kg.

When they train side by side, Nick matches and even beats Kelly on reps during full benching, but Kelly's 1RM is higher because he is a FASTER bencher.

This shits Nick, its why he works so hard on speed.
 
PTC said:
Your already very strong for your age Oli, its just that more can be achieved quicker by targeting weaknesses. You may not be a slow lifter so the benefits might be minimal.

Have someone time your bench, load 60% of your 1RM and see if you can get 3 in 3. If not, there is room for improvement, if you smash it, your speed is okay.
Click to expand...

I'll give that a try in the holidays.

My bench weak point has always been the bottom part of the lift. I did some reading on it and dealt with it through higher rep back work (both rows and pull ups). Since then my bench has increased and my deadlift and back size have increased significantly.

I'm sure there's probably 1-2 other points I'm missing, but those are the most obvious.
 
Upper back strength is normally associated with lockout strength.

Nina is weak at the bottom, speed work is the best thing she ever did for her bench press. When she stops, she drops 10kg of her PB everytime without fail.

Again, we'll see at Nationals. She missed 65kg at States and ended up with 62.5kg. I reckon she'll get 70kg at Nats, we added a speed day after the States.
 
Markos, with the 3 for 3 in speed bench press, do you mean that pressing from chest to lockout should be less than 1 sec, or do you include the descent as well?
 
Oli your bench is still (like my own) well behind your squat and dead lift. The other two are quite impressive by the way.

I have gone through my journal and the best gains i made on bench were by using the 2 day a week heavy (max) and speed (dynamic). I've tried plenty of other methods but this works the best for me so I believe in it 100%.

Try deadlifting at half your normal speed next session, see how much your lift drops.

I beleive in the method as i have seen it work wonders for me. Plus westside have produced some ok lifters with it.
 
Dancelot said:
Markos, with the 3 for 3 in speed bench press, do you mean that pressing from chest to lockout should be less than 1 sec, or do you include the descent as well?
Click to expand...

The lifter takes the bar off the rack, the instant his arm bends you start the clock, when he locks out the 3rd rep you stop the clock.

When Nick started doing this, his bench max was between 110-117.5kg. In around 5-6 months he was using 110kg for speed work and was benching 150kg.

This is not theory, no bench shirts, no drugs, just actual results.
 
Markos; I don't rubbish any method of training.

I originally stated that the subject matter was neccessary in the sport you are involved with... safe? No.
That is all.

I think it's fair to say that I personally have pushed the limits.
My goal is to stay healthy and mobile, I shouldn't come into this powerlifting section and comment.

My favorite definition of strength is “the ability to do”. Most people associate physical strength with a 1RM, the application of maximum force in a specific movement. But strongman competitions involve more than 1RM strength, they require power and endurance as well. Speed, an element of power, is essential in almost all sports activities. The individual who excels at the greatest number of such physical activities has the greatest ability to do, and would therefore be justifiably considered the “strongest”. Changing your training mode from time to time is a good idea
that's just my thoughts.
I remember Jesse Maraunde, the day he died made me re-asses.
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He died at 27. Left two kids and a loving wife.
Correct, he worked out very hard.
Safe? Don't know, I didn't watch every workout.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
This thread hurts my head - wish we could just have a good discussion on dynamic effort training. lol
 
Lots of BB died young Andy.

As far as Strongman competition goes, we have a phase in our training that covers that, because we also hold Strongman Comps.

We also have Olympic lifting sessions.

we are not one dimensional, even during powerlifting training, we employ the repetition method, what most would call bodybuilding, but we use compound movements with moderate weights for high reps.

we are not about 1RM only. Nick squatted 162.5kg x 20. Dave squatted 60kg x 120. We bench bodyweight for reps, with the record being 27.

Right now its competetive powerlifting season, so we train accordingly.

For every strongman example of dying young you give me, I'll give you 100 still alive.
 
Anyway, I wont respond to anything other than the original topic, it created interesting discussion yesterday, 8 pages in one day is epic
 
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