Load the muscle not the bar...

[Bazza20]

Perhaps you're in the wrong section of the forum, even in the wrong sport if you're thinking bodybuilding.

We are talking growing muscle?
If so I'm in the right place. You seem to need to get back to planet earth.

 

[Fadi]

We are talking growing muscle?
If so I'm in the right place. You seem to need to get back to planet earth.

So to grow muscles according to you, one's goal is the lifting of the weight instead of the application of effort by said muscle to lift that weight. OK, if that's your message to the general bodybuilder reading here, then fine.

For me however, coming from the sport of Olympic weightlifting where the main focus was on lifting the weight, to a sport where the main goal is to allow for the muscle to take center stage in its application of effort against that weight, is my message to the general bodybuilder out there.

Barry, you're most welcome to disagree with my message, but please don't shoot the messenger whilst doing it OK. Thank you.

 

[Fadi]

I'm sure most of you remember the Swiss giant of the 90s bodybuilding era Jean Pierre Fux. Well, in a blink of an eyelid his life was transformed, all because of this magic association or rather obsession some bodybuilders have with the load on the bar. Here's what took place during a photo-shoot for the bodybuilding magazine Flex. He tried to squat around the 305kg mark when it went all horribly wrong for him. A picture is worth a thousand words, so ...





This is precisely the bodybuilding psychology I'm talking about. Load load and more focus on load. Sure, Jean Pierre wanted to impress his fans and the whole world of how many plates he could stack onto that squat bar...my question is why? Had it not been for the wrong psychology of many a bodybuilder, an aspect I've witnessed (and wondered about) since joining the sport of bodybuilding back in 1984, perhaps Fux would not have had to impress anyone with "see how much I can lift" attitude, and would have relied more on "look how friggin awesome my muscles look" instead!

 

[White_Lie]

We are talking growing muscle?
If so I'm in the right place. You seem to need to get back to planet earth.

Why are the biggest bodybuilders weaker than strongmen, power lifters, weight lifters etc? By your way of thinking, if you're the strongest, you will also be the biggest

 

[Fadi]

I'm definitely on the same bandwagon Fadi is on. I used to focus more on the numbers on the bar but don't believe this is ideal for inducing hypertrophy. If you focus more on the stretch and contraction, "forcing" the desired muscle to do the work. As Fadi says, we're talking bodybuilding here, not weight lifting. The idea isn't simply to get stronger. You can get bigger by dropping the numbers

Thank you so much for reflecting and understanding before commenting Sir, I sincerely appreciate it.

People are welcome to disagree, I really don't mind. However please do it respectfully and if you're able, provide us with an alternative message to the one I'm sharing here with all readers of Ausbb. Thank you in advance.

 

[Bazza20]

Why are the biggest bodybuilders weaker than strongmen, power lifters, weight lifters etc? By your way of thinking, if you're the strongest, you will also be the biggest

Nope. That's not how you look at it. Even though in general bigger is stronger, that's why we have weight classes in strength sports. There are no 60kg guys breaking the SHW powerlifting records.

If you get stronger, you yourself will get bigger.

If you are stronger than your friend it doesn't mean you will be bigger than him. You are different people with different genetics for growth and strength. You can't comprare progress between people

Now stronger/progression can be many things not just 1rm. Extra volume, time under tension ect.

Keep it simple. Focus on the big exercises, lift the weight and progress overtime. Do all the hocus pocus stuff you want but that's not going to make a difference compared to the basics of it.

 

[Goosey]

Nope. That's not how you look at it. Even though in general bigger is stronger, that's why we have weight classes in strength sports. There are no 60kg guys breaking the SHW powerlifting records.

If you get stronger, you yourself will get bigger.

If you are stronger than your friend it doesn't mean you will be bigger than him. You are different people with different genetics for growth and strength. You can't comprare progress between people

Now stronger/progression can be many things not just 1rm. Extra volume, time under tension ect.

Keep it simple. Focus on the big exercises, lift the weight and progress overtime. Do all the hocus pocus stuff you want but that's not going to make a difference compared to the basics of it.

yep.

 

[Darkoz]

I think some of you may be misunderstanding what's being said here
As I understand what Fadi is trying to simply put, you don't have to lift the heaviest weight to build muscle
It's not the amount of weight but progression that matters.

 

[Goosey]

I think some of you may be misunderstanding what's being said here
As I understand what Fadi is trying to simply put, you don't have to lift the heaviest weight to build muscle
It's not the amount of weight but progression that matters.

Well, that is spot on then.

to add; what Bazza says is also right, I also gave my interpretation but received no feedback from fadi.

 

[Shrek]

This goes around to the whole progression thing.
Yes, there are numerous ways to progress, adding weight is just one of them.

 

[Bazza20]

This goes around to the whole progression thing.
Yes, there are numerous ways to progress, adding weight is just one of them.

Yep. Shreks progression focuses on increasing BF%.

 

[Goosey]

Pow!

 

[spartacus]

ffs, i agree with bazza and goosey here. Why is weight training debates dressed up here as rocket science. It is simply bs.

Yes, it should be common sense that the effective grey area transcends weight used and form, but progressive overload still generally applies no matter one how trains.

Now 20-25 years ago, several mates took up bb. At least 4 of them won Mr Australia NABBA titles simply by training hard and eating well. Not a rocket scientist amongst them.

 

[bull]

For the first time in this forum, you clowns are all right. It just depends on the assumptions that you are making.

Bodybuilding is not about weight, it's about stress.

If you assume zero form degradation, additional weight will equate to additional stress. Form degrades in the real world so the marginal benefit of increasing weight falls away quickly.

Even the "not rocket science" posts are right.

I think the understanding of this principle is part of the reason why experienced trainees can achieve twice as much with less effort than the young guys.

 

[Fadi]

I think the understanding of this principle is part of the reason why experienced trainees can achieve twice as much with less effort than the young guys.

You've got it thank you Champ. It's the correct psychological attitude towards the sport of bodybuilding; that it is bodybuilding and not weight lifting., a distinction most often overlooked by many well intentioned bodybuilders. The evidence of my words are the gym goers that fill up our gyms, ever so ready to have their muscles lift the weight, instead of allowing for the weight (as a mere tool) to work and stress their muscles to the max.

Ausbb please note: my entire message was revealed to you intrinsically in the 6 words title of this thread. There was no rocket science in those 6 words I used to express my intention: Load the muscle not the bar...

Some may still wish to disagree with me. To those, I say...

Apologies if my OP has annoyed or confused some of you gentlemen; that was never my intention. Thank you.

 

[Bazza20]

You've got it thank you Champ. It's the correct psychological attitude towards the sport of bodybuilding; that it is bodybuilding and not weight lifting., a distinction most often overlooked by many well intentioned bodybuilders. The evidence of my words are the gym goers that fill up our gyms, ever so ready to have their muscles lift the weight, instead of allowing for the weight (as a mere tool) to work and stress their muscles to the max.

Ausbb please note: my entire message was revealed to you intrinsically in the 6 words title of this thread. There was no rocket science in those 6 words I used to express my intention: Load the muscle not the bar...

Some may still wish to disagree with me. To those, I say...

Apologies if my OP has annoyed or confused some of you gentlemen; that never was my intention. Thank you.

You post hasn't annoyed anyone. Just hasn't helped anyone.

 

[Fadi]

You post hasn't annoyed anyone. Just hasn't helped anyone.

I respect your opinion Barry, thank you for sharing it.

 

[Bazza20]

ffs, i agree with bazza and goosey here. Why is weight training debates dressed up here as rocket science. It is simply bs.

Yes, it should be common sense that the effective grey area transcends weight used and form, but progressive overload still generally applies no matter one how trains.

Now 20-25 years ago, several mates took up bb. At least 4 of them won Mr Australia NABBA titles simply by training hard and eating well. Not a rocket scientist amongst them.

There is a reason for all the hocus pocus training theories, the same as the reason people love spending a fortune on every new bullshit supp.

Growing muscle is hard work. Going in and regularly doing tough training is hard work. Buying supps and doing fluff training techniques is a much easier way to convince yourself you are training hard.

 

[Stiffy]

Interesting thing about this thread is I think everyone posting in it understands what not to do - don't just throw around weight but rather work the Muscle.

People's Brains are limited by their English expression when it comes to communication.

 

[Bazza20]

Interesting thing about this thread is I think everyone posting in it understands what not to do - don't just throw around weight but rather work the Muscle.

People's Brains are limited by their English expression when it comes to communication.

I've never gone in the gym with the goal of working the muscle. I go in their to lift weights, working the muscles happens when you lift weights.