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Is Starting Strength or a split going to build most muscle for 15mnths trainee?

IMO you should stick to a strength-based beginner program until you've progressed beyond beginner strength. This will allow you lift some serious muscle-building weights and you'll have developed enough endurance and neural pathways to train properly and efficiently.

If you're stalling with Fadi's then reset the numbers. You've just peaked on those lifts. Deload and knock some kilos off your working numbers then start over again.
 
leachy said:
Here we go, another bodybuilding vs powerlifting thread. Let the shit fly!!!

Do PTC's beginner program. Don't be fooled by the title, its pretty hard, you will be dripping by the end of it.
Click to expand...

I don't see that there's a 'Vs' or an 'Against': There's just horses for courses. They're two sides of the same coin, or two different tools to be used for a desired effect. I wouldn't try to put a screw in with a hammer - you might eventually get it in but it wouldn't be the most efficient or best looking method.

Kid posts in the 'Bodybuilding Training Discussions' segment with a bodybuilding diet, a bodybuilding goal of a lean 90kg, and a bodybuilding mentality of size and leaness being foremost and strength being a non-issue.
 
Show me weak bodybuilders??

It's like I want to be an NBA star I don't want to practice drills I just want to shoot hoops.
 
steak55 said:
I've stopped progressing on it as he dictates (should be adding reps on exercises but I can't). Maybe I should just deload and continue on Fadi's routine?
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That diet does look good. I dunno mate, but I reckon just stick with Fadi's programme and try harder. ;) Eat a bit more, sleep a bit more, push a bit harder. I'd suggest focussing on eating your way through the plateau though. It worked for me but I put on some bodyfat. Was happy with that though as now I'm back to maintenance diet plus a little bit amd the bodyfat is slowly reducing again but my lifts have held up OK.

I wouldn't mix up your programming until you hit the beginners standard published on here. Listen to Freako (shit, did I just say that! :0 )

Cheers,
Mike
 
And the Ugly said:
I don't see that there's a 'Vs' or an 'Against': There's just horses for courses. They're two sides of the same coin, or two different tools to be used for a desired effect. I wouldn't try to put a screw in with a hammer - you might eventually get it in but it wouldn't be the most efficient or best looking method.

Kid posts in the 'Bodybuilding Training Discussions' segment with a bodybuilding diet, a bodybuilding goal of a lean 90kg, and a bodybuilding mentality of size and leaness being foremost and strength being a non-issue.
Click to expand...

You gotta walk before you can run. I'm not getting into it, again....

I used to do the whole bodybuilding routine, didn't gain shit, just burned a fuckload of calories. Started lifting heavier with a more compound focus and boom, I grew.

Seriously the OP is 70kg. Drink some damn milk and do some squats.
 
I cannot believe the ignorance, ugly, you are the sort of person that a swift kick in the nuts would be enough, it wouldn't do much good but it would sure make me feel better.
 
Silverback's comments are generally vague and unhelpful to anyone asking questions, but in this case I agree with his response to And The Ugly.
 
leachy said:
You gotta walk before you can run. I'm not getting into it, again....

I used to do the whole bodybuilding routine, didn't gain shit, just burned a fuckload of calories. Started lifting heavier with a more compound focus and boom, I grew.

Seriously the OP is 70kg. Drink some damn milk and do some squats.
Click to expand...

He's 77kg. At 10cm shorter than you.
 
Silverback said:
I cannot believe the ignorance, ugly, you are the sort of person that a swift kick in the nuts would be enough, it wouldn't do much good but it would sure make me feel better.
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Ha! You're a classic. You've got plattitudes and sayings coming out your arse when your opinions are being spouted, but as soon as I genuinely disagree with you and argue a point you've got nothing but pointless vehemence.
I didn't disagree with you because I enjoy being contrary - I just disagree with you.
Don't take it so personally.
 
And the Ugly said:
He's 77kg. At 10cm shorter than you.
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I'm 70kg and with 10 less months of lower body training my squat and deadlift are both miles ahead.

He needs to get strong first, then worry about fancy splits (I wouldn't be against him doing an upper/lower as long as it was done properly though).
If you look at all the top bodybuilders they're still hella strong
 
If you want to try something ballsy do a 20 rep breathing squat routine using your current 10 rep max as a starting point.
 
The 20RM squat thing is mentioned in SS. Something like 'with a mental readjustment, a large number of trainees can hit a 20RM on a weight previously assumed to be their 10RM'.
 
The Hamburgler said:
I'm 70kg and with 10 less months of lower body training my squat and deadlift are both miles ahead.

He needs to get strong first, then worry about fancy splits (I wouldn't be against him doing an upper/lower as long as it was done properly though).
If you look at all the top bodybuilders they're still hella strong
Click to expand...

I don't think so. You're comparing your best lifts in a powerlifting setting to my average lifts in a bodybuilding setting. For example, when I do my Deadlifts, I have already done Squats, Bench, weighted pull ups etc. My grip is fucked and gives out towards the end of my sets (was doing them all over hand grip last time) as a result. And I still have to overhead press, and do heavy weighted dips after.

So yeah, your 1RM deadlift may be a few kilos heavier than my work sets, but you're comparing apples to oranges.
 
Shane7 said:
If you want to try something ballsy do a 20 rep breathing squat routine using your current 10 rep max as a starting point.
Click to expand...

Do this now............

Then drink 2 litres of milk...........

While eating a chicken..........

Then do it three times a week on top of your normal workout (adding weight or reps every session) and on top of your normal food intake. Your body will then have no choice but to get bigger.
 
20 reps squats tear your arsehole... in a good way.

In regards to the Ugly/Silverback argument. While I'm not agreeing with Ugly's prescription for this trainee (I feel he has a while to go before he should be switching to a "traditional" bodybuilding split - ie. needs to walk before he can run) I don't understand the seemingly obtuse attitude shown by Silverback towards Ugly's opinions, and I'm honestly not just saying this because Ugly's my friend and training partner.

There is validity to Ugly's "training specificity" argument. Bb'ing splits are useful to allow a bb'er to target a particular area with more volume (eg. different sections of the back) to fix specific perceived weakpoints. These programs would however be inefficient for a powerlifter who does need hypertrophy but is only interested in all-round size.

I feel my argument here may require further clarification but I've got things to do and places to be so I'll attend to this later.
 
@steak55

My training age is the same as yours, except that I'm a fair bit heavier while being a couple of inches shorter. I always get guys at the gym asking me how I build my shoulders or quads. They never like the answer :p which is: lift heavier and eat more. Want bigger quads? Squat more. I did 20 rep squats for months last year while eating lots of steak, chicken and eggs. Did any of the guys with small legs try that? Nope, and so they're stuck with small legs.

If you want to do bodybuilding, that's fine, but you still need to lift heavier. Frankly your lifts are piss weak. I have a few friends at the gym who are into bodybuilding (despite me trying to convert them to powerlifting many times). They're between 78kg and low 90kg, 5'6" to 5'11", ripped and very muscular. Those guys lift big. The 78kg fella (also a sprinter) benches 180kg and squats 170kg for 3x5. The 85kg guy deadlifts 170kg for 3x12. The 90+kg guy benches 165kg. Now their lifts are kinda out of whack cos they do bodybuilding and not strength training (e.g one guy has a poor squat relative to his bench) but you can see that they are fairly strong.

You're not gonna get big squatting 80kg and benching 60kg. No need to tell us the excuses. I do all three big lifts in nearly every session and while not maxing out every time, I'd still lift way more in each. And I'm far from being a good lifter, plenty of guys lift a lot more than me at my weight, train harder and often have a better body as a result.

Lift heavier, give your body a reason to grow.
 
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