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Essendon FC investigated over supplements

0ni said:
I think pasteurisation would denature most of the IGF in milk anyway
Maybe this is why Bazza20 is so stronk, all dat der raw milk
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Wasnt he the one who said it didnt make any difference? I remember he completely dismissed grassfed stuff but cant remember his stance on milk
 
Interesting stuff, Oni. If that research you referred to is on to something, then WADA may have to reconsider its position. Wouldn't be the first time. Both caffeine and pseudo have been on and off numerous times.

FWIW, the irony is most of the elite powerlifters I've spoken to about creatine (both drug-tested and non drug-tested) don't even use the stuff. Not worth the 2-3kg of empty bodyweight it adds. Seems to be mainly the domain of novice/intermediate lifters trying anything they can to improve.

Also, I'm led to believe kangaroo meat is higher in creatine than beef. Couldn't find a definitive answer in my 30 seconds of googling then gave up.
 
Cooking will denature a lot of creatine, anything above 80 celsius.
I think the main reason for not using it is because it's not fully understood. I don't think there is any such thing as "empty body weight" also... you may get bloat but like all bloat (for instance sodium loading) the body will balance it out after a few weeks of usage. The other water weight is glycogen in the muscles which is only ever a good thing imo

Starting tomorrow I will be taking 60g of creatine a day for a month. At 70kg this is about double the total amount of creatine my muscles will actually hold. I don't expect that much to happen at all really but it will be interesting to see what does happen. I'll take before and after pics
 
0ni said:
Cooking will denature a lot of creatine, anything above 80 celsius.
I think the main reason for not using it is because it's not fully understood. I don't think there is any such thing as "empty body weight" also... you may get bloat but like all bloat (for instance sodium loading) the body will balance it out after a few weeks of usage. The other water weight is glycogen in the muscles which is only ever a good thing imo

Starting tomorrow I will be taking 60g of creatine a day for a month. At 70kg this is about double the total amount of creatine my muscles will actually hold. I don't expect that much to happen at all really but it will be interesting to see what does happen. I'll take before and after pics
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Expect kidney failure..lol
 
0ni said:
That's the thing, creatine is not *really* thoroughly researched yet and we are still finding things out. Most studies only show a loading phase followed by a maintenance phase but fail to test consistently a wide range of factors. Then there are studies like this one that fly under the radar:

Creatine supplementation increases glycogen ... [Clin Sci (Lond). 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

Essentially, loading with 20g a day creatine skyrocketed creatine levels and muscle glycogen levels. As far as I am aware there are no studies that show creatine use with high dose over more than 7 days. The maintenance dose failed to maintain the high creatine and muscle glycogen levels. I would really like to see what 60g a day would do over day 20 days- I might try it myself soon actually and document the results here.

Creatine will also increase the conversion of testosterone to DHT significantly and this *possibly* may be another mechanism of action.
Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplem... [Clin J Sport Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

Then there is evidence that creatine is incredibly anti-catabolic and even works as a myostatin inhibitor
Effects of resistance exercise with and witho... [J Appl Physiol. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI (free full text)

Another thing it does in HIGH doses is increase the levels of GLUT-4 that come out of the muscle cells during resistance training. This means that for about ~1 hour afterwards your muscles will soak up more carbs than without creatine. Combine this with a post workout shake of loads of sugar, leucine and hydrolysed protein and the whole lot will enter the muscles before insulin even has a chance to tell the GLUT-4 in your fat cells to soak up the carbs you just drank (you literally don't get fat if you down it in that hour and high creatine levels will increase the amount of sugar you'll be able to take in)
Effect of oral creatine supplementation on human mu... [Diabetes. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI - also one other study above shows this

It sounds like I'm going on or trying to make a silly point but I really do not see why creatine supplementation should be allowed with WADA tested athletes- especially when drugs such as cannabis are banned. I would commend anyone that can eat enough red meat to get 30g a day of creatine because that is pretty much 5kg of beef a day we are talking about. I'm just dumping info on creatine now I'm not especially trying to argue here (I know people have the incredible ability on the internet to read things in the most offensive way possible but that is not what I am trying to do)

Creatine will ALSO cause increased insulin resistance in the very short term after taking it- so if you're a morning trainer and like to eat afterwards you don't need to worry about insulin sensitivity early in the morning and fat gain if you take it first thing

Regarding IGF, I don't think that should be allowed despite it being in milk. It has a functional half life in the body of under an hour- if anyone would want to pin themselves every hour then congratulations lol, you want to win more than I do. There are other forms of IGF that are gene spliced to have longer half lives (up to 30h with IGF-1 LR3) but alas, this is not found in food
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These are the long posts I do not have the attention span to read...
 
Raw Milk is supposed to be great for you, unless you get a bad batch, then its deadly ......... ain't it.
 
L.P.S. said:
Raw Milk is supposed to be great for you, unless you get a bad batch, then its deadly ......... ain't it.
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Lysteria or salamanella tho u never hear of it from raw milk mainly eggs. Wish I could get some in melbourne
 
wingman said:
Yeah it is. My waist is 34 and my bench is 0. Whats your point exactly?
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I don't exactly have a point...just stating the facts that my I.q. Is obviously at least higher than your bench...wouldn't be hard tho :) I'm very immature :) I Like to say and do very immature stuff. Deep down I'm just a hairy kid with a penis the size of a porn star, u might call me a freak but I like to call me different...point made?
 
[FONT=.HelveticaNeueUI]http://www.musculardevelopment.com/news/bodybuilding-news/5384-the-big-gut-are-excess-gh-and-insulin-to-blame.html[/FONT][FONT=.HelveticaNeueUI]
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[FONT=.HelveticaNeueUI]Good article [/FONT]
 
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