Driving with the hips.

[PowerBuilder]

A common mantra when it comes to exercises such as the snatch, clean (and respective pulls & shrugs) as well as deadlifting (in my gym and hopefully yours too) is to drive with the hips. The idea is to drive the hips through the bar when lifting said weight.

At my gym I sometimes hear people encouraging lifters who are squatting with the same chant 'drive with hips'.

I'm perhaps not communicating what I want to say very well as per normal. What I want to know is when squatting, do you still drive the weight up with your hips in the same fashion as when doing a clean (for example).

 

[trofius]

I would say so, the basis of all those exercises is to get the ass feet and shoulders all in line..

 

[Goosey]

An image by Tommy Kono, showing the core of power.

 

[PowerBuilder]

An image by Tommy Kono, showing the core of power.

I love that picture. I first saw it when reading 'The Strongest Shall Survive' by Bill Starr. It's that picture that got me thinking about driving with the hips, glute activation.

 

[Sticky]

Personally, I don't think you can get much drive with the hips when squatting with your feet close together like me. It's then mostly quad.

However, this is something I have been playing with of late.
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[Nicolas]

A common mantra when it comes to exercises such as the snatch, clean (and respective pulls & shrugs) as well as deadlifting (in my gym and hopefully yours too) is to drive with the hips. The idea is to drive the hips through the bar when lifting said weight.

At my gym I sometimes hear people encouraging lifters who are squatting with the same chant 'drive with hips'.

I'm perhaps not communicating what I want to say very well as per normal. What I want to know is when squatting, do you still drive the weight up with your hips in the same fashion as when doing a clean (for example).

Terminology can be spread across exercises to help the lifter visualise their movement. Even if you were technically not 'driving with the hips' , it is likely a simple coaching tool in the Gym for newcomers to squats, to assist them with the idea that they need to extend at the hips to produce the final stage of the squat during ascent.

I actually have no issue with people using it as a description of the upward (concentric) phase of the squat.

 

[Nicolas]

Personally, I don't think you can get much drive with the hips when squatting with your feet close together like me. It's then mostly quad.

However, this is something I have been playing with of late.
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How is it 'mostly quad' ?

Your quads have no relevance to hip extension - their function is to extend the knee during ascent ... hip extension is principally governed by hamstring activation. So, I can't see how bringing your feet "close" (which is an ambigious description, since we all have different idea's of what close represents); would create "less hip drive" and "greater quad activation"? ... The whole temporal phase of muscular contribution to a squatting movement would suggest otherwise.

 

[Sticky]

Your words hurt my eyes.

When I stand with my feet at shoulder width, I get no, or very little hip drive.

As soon as my feet go out further than shoulder width, I am able to thrust my hip forward to make me stand.

 

[Nicolas]

Your words hurt my eyes.

When I stand with my feet at shoulder width, I get no, or very little hip drive.

As soon as my feet go out further than shoulder width, I am able to thrust my hip forward to make me stand.

There is always hip drive, irrespective of foot placement; and the magnitude of hip drive would only slightly differ based on joint angles.

 

[Sticky]

There is always hip drive, irrespective of foot placement; and the magnitude of hip drive would only slightly differ based on joint angles.

What are you basing this on?

 

[Nicolas]

What are you basing this on?

Quantified levels of muscle activation responsible for hip extension during the squat, at different joint angles, using the most sophisticated assessment tools available at this current stage?

You only need to read several biomechanical studies of the back squat / front squat to notice this - not to mentioned I performed my own research into the squat at different hip and knee joint angles.

Even intuitively, you should be-able to recongise the differences of hip drive itself would be only slight. After all, the primary difference between squatting with a wide stance over close stance is your base of support / stability; so ofcourse it may feel different ... it has no bearing on the amount of hip extension; and hip drive...... Every single person has to extend at the hips to finalise their squat.

 

[Sticky]

Quantified levels of muscle activation responsible for hip extension during the squat, at different joint angles, using the most sophisticated assessment tools available at this current stage?

You only need to read several biomechanical studies of the back squat / front squat to notice this - not to mentioned I performed my own research into the squat at different hip and knee joint angles.

Even intuitively, you should be-able to recongise the differences of hip drive itself would be only slight. After all, the primary difference between squatting with a wide stance over close stance is your base of support / stability; so ofcourse it may feel different ... it has no bearing on the amount of hip extension; and hip drive...... Every single person has to extend at the hips to finalise their squat.

I agree.

I talking about driving with your hip out of the hole though, not just at the top.

I normally squat shouder width, and "sit down" into the squat, much like a front squat.
I have now been playing with "sitting back" into the squat.

I noticed a MASSIVE difference in how I was able to use my hips to get the weight up when sitting back.

Now, Im basing this on what Ive been told/coached on by elite level power lifters, not fancy books.

Dont take this the wrong way, Im not trying to argue. Im simply trying to get a greater understanding of the squat.

 

[Nicolas]

I noticed a MASSIVE difference in how I was able to use my hips to get the weight up when sitting back.

Absolutely, you will 'feel' a difference when attempting to get "out of the hole" .. or to push past the sticking point at the base of the squat. That's likely due to a difference in your base of support / stability, and slight muscular adjustments based on differing joint angles. The depth of your squat will also impact muscular contributions.

The deeper you go, the greater contribution from your glutes to "pop" you out of the hole, and promote hip extension. Foot position would of course modify how much your glute-med is required (a stabiliser); so closer foot position will feel notably different. The other factor is ofcourse, that a wider stance (and foot position) may alter the focus of where you're required to apply force .... (such as turning feet outward focusing greater on your VMO, and so forth).

Irrespective of all of those differences between which muscles provide the most contribution during the ascent at the base of the squat; you're still required to drive out of a hole with as much hip extension as you would knee extension. It's that synchronous extension that helps keeps you balanced as you drive up.

 

[NPR]

Sticky squats straight up and down. Much more movement in the knees and ankles as opposed to his hips.

As a result he uses much more quads than posterior chain.
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[Sticky]

Thanks Nick. You know what I'm trying to say.
I've slowed my decent to about half of what it was, and am trying to shave about 2-4 inches off the depth - it's much harder than I thought!
When sitting back though it's easier to squat at 3/4 depth aposed to atg.
I had DOMS in my groin for days after a session at 70% lol.
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[Nicolas]

Yep , it's actually quite difficult to comfortably change squat depth!

I'm so used to squatting as deep as I am physically capable - (below parallel).... I attempted to squat parallel a few times, but it's much harder to control I find.

Not to mention, raises the age old debate about which "strategy" is better.

 

[dr00]

Generally speaking, during a powerlift type squat (bar lower behind the shoulders and a wider stance) the knee does not travel forward as far as a bodybuilding type squat. The hips typically travel back further with the torso bent forward on a powerlift type squat. This emphasizes the stronger hip extensors and consequently reduces knee extensor involvement. Knee torque is further reduced by a wide stance.

Squat Analysis