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Deadlifts vs. Deficit Deadlifts

Done them, they're OK. Not necessary though.

Edit; Do do them occasionally for SLDLs as I find it helps
 
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This is just my opinion now and a lot of people seem to disagree but this whole weak point shit just seems damn illogical to me. As a raw lifter you're always going to have the same damn sticking point and that is the point where your joints are the furthest away from the centre of gravity. This is nearly always a few inches from the bottom. So why not spend your training just increasing size of the muscles used in the lift and building the bottom portion of the lift where you have the most trouble. Even in the deadlift where you have a double leverage sticking point making lockout hard, hammering away with lockout work is pretty stupid in my eyes when you could be spending the time getting stronger from the bottom. There was a guy on another forum who was having problems with lockout and was a 600lb conventional deadlifter; people were like "yeah do this lockout work, turn feet out to make lockout easier, blah blah blah" and he ended up getting weaker because he wasn't able to pull enough weight from the floor to even get it to lockout lol... no matter how strong that range of motion is

Never seen a guy miss a squat or bench raw at lockout... apart from some female benchers that have crazy arches but that's another story really. So my thoughts is to just bodybuild and train the bottom of the lift
 
Got to the 3rd and 4th line and stopped reading.

Loads of lifters have very different sticking points.... as a coach, I've seen plenty of lifters miss lifts high, on all 3.

By plenty, I mean loads.
 
0ni said:
This is just my opinion now and a lot of people seem to disagree but this whole weak point shit just seems damn illogical to me. As a raw lifter you're always going to have the same damn sticking point and that is the point where your joints are the furthest away from the centre of gravity. This is nearly always a few inches from the bottom.
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Negative, I am always strong off the floor ALWAYS fail my deadlift at the knees. Provided I get past my knees I can always lock the bitch out. My brother who I lift with always gets stuck trying to lock it out, getting his hips through is his sticking point.

Everyones different.
 
Make sure he externally rotates the shoulder, and locks them back/down before the start if the pull
 
yes but getting stronger at the bottom of the lift is a great solution
You either generate enough force to clear the sticking point or you do not

I will ask Mike T if he has any data on this. He has analysed hundreds of lifters and produces graphs on force curves for each lift and can accurately pin point sticking points and give recommendations on what part of the lift you need to work on.

Fluffy: You always fail the deadlift at your knees right? Well that's just because you are not generating enough force to get past mid shin, the bar starts slowing down then stops at knee level and you miss it. How much can you box deadlift from just under the knee? My bet is a boatload more than you can pull from the floor. Keep lowering the box and eventually you'll find a spot lower than your deadlift from the floor (where your hips are furthest away from the bar). This is quite low. So if your below the knee deadlift is a whole bunch more than your deadlift from the floor what makes you think that this is a weak area? It's not a weak area you just didn't generate enough force from the floor.

As for your brother, he misses at lockout. The deadlift is the only lift where you have this double mechanical disadvantage and as Sticky (and Mike T) says you're best off building the back and the bottom of the lift.

This isn't "training the bottom" or "training the lockout", you're just building the lift. I don't think close grip benching "builds the lockout" or "builds the bottom" by increasing ROM either... you're just building the damn lift
 
0ni said:
yes but getting stronger at the bottom of the lift is a great solution
You either generate enough force to clear the sticking point or you do not

I will ask Mike T if he has any data on this. He has analysed hundreds of lifters and produces graphs on force curves for each lift and can accurately pin point sticking points and give recommendations on what part of the lift you need to work on.

Fluffy: You always fail the deadlift at your knees right? Well that's just because you are not generating enough force to get past mid shin, the bar starts slowing down then stops at knee level and you miss it. How much can you box deadlift from just under the knee? My bet is a boatload more than you can pull from the floor. Keep lowering the box and eventually you'll find a spot lower than your deadlift from the floor (where your hips are furthest away from the bar). This is quite low. So if your below the knee deadlift is a whole bunch more than your deadlift from the floor what makes you think that this is a weak area? It's not a weak area you just didn't generate enough force from the floor.

As for your brother, he misses at lockout. The deadlift is the only lift where you have this double mechanical disadvantage and as Sticky (and Mike T) says you're best off building the back and the bottom of the lift.

This isn't "training the bottom" or "training the lockout", you're just building the lift. I don't think close grip benching "builds the lockout" or "builds the bottom" by increasing ROM either... you're just building the damn lift
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I pretty much agree with what you are saying but I fail deadlifts around the knee and I would guarantee that I would pull less from the knee than the floor if I did both tomorrow.
 
Bazza20 said:
I pretty much agree with what you are saying but I fail deadlifts around the knee and I would guarantee that I would pull less from the knee than the floor if I did both tomorrow.
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It will be the point where the hips are furthest away from the bar wherever that is for your proportions. Point still same though imo
 
Sticky said:
Why?

I religiously do deficit pulls.
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The answer to that question will come to you over the next 10 to 20 years.

I used to do extreme ROM exercises when I benched 185kg @ 90 and was squatting six plates in training. When I get out of bed in the morning I feel it. Although it might in part be due to the fractures and prolapsed discs in my spine that were handed to me at birth.
 
The deeper the better, you've got to do it right though.
Even then and if you start relatively light and I mean relative to you and your form is slightly orf, if you show some patience and just coax the gains over a protracted time those form issues sort themselves out, that's if you are not a nimrod.
 
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vonfram88 said:
The answer to that question will come to you over the next 10 to 20 years.

I used to do extreme ROM exercises when I benched 185kg @ 90 and was squatting six plates in training. When I get out of bed in the morning I feel it. Although it might in part be due to the fractures and prolapsed discs in my spine that were handed to me at birth.
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It will depend on what your definition of normal ROM is. To a person who only does rack pulls a normal deadlift is going to be more than their normal ROM.
 
I don't see how range of motion is a problem unless there is a very big stretch on the muscles involved

Close grip bench = probably ok
cambered bar bench = probably not
 
callan said:
now im going to make you all angry and say deficits on sumo is pointless
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Why do you say this?
Whenever I have done them, they have been real grinders to even get the bar moving. Finding it hard to think of a reason why they would be bad. I use sumo to improve my conventional pull though and have no interest in increasing my sumo pulls so maybe deficit sumo pulling changes the exercise too much I have no idea
 
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