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Bench arch technique
Not relating to arching but I have a similar problem with bench. Long arms = shitty bench and ok deadlift. Not saying it will work for anyone else but I find the more I flat bench the worse it gets. Flat bench just always feels awkward and unnatural to me.
I hit my last PB on the bench when I had been doing hardly any flat bench. Just been concentrating on OHP and incline bench. Both which feel a lot more natural to me. When I hit my bench PB I got excited and started doing a lot more bench and my bench strength went down again along with stalling my other upper body pressing. Now that i have dropped flat bench all other pressing has gone up and I would be confident that a flat bench PB would be close.
Not saying this is ideal but this is what seems to work for a shitty bencher like me.
I hit my last PB on the bench when I had been doing hardly any flat bench. Just been concentrating on OHP and incline bench. Both which feel a lot more natural to me. When I hit my bench PB I got excited and started doing a lot more bench and my bench strength went down again along with stalling my other upper body pressing. Now that i have dropped flat bench all other pressing has gone up and I would be confident that a flat bench PB would be close.
Not saying this is ideal but this is what seems to work for a shitty bencher like me.
D1cko
Extra Large Member
Cheers I might try this after my shoulder is fixed. My deadlift and squat are stupidly out of proportion to my bench
jj80
Member
I have orangutan arms so I know the feeling (194cm tall). I had shoulder issues at like 80kg bench and actually took a closer grip for a while as that's the common advice you hear to make the bench easier on the shoulders. It did me no good, in fact it made it worse cause I was increasing the shoulder rotation I went through.
Look at my vid and you can see I arch a shitload, gotta reduce that ROM and shoulder rotation. I also have to make sure the bar is coming low on my chest. I take the widest grip possible in powerlifting (index on the rings or whatever). In the vid I am probably not tucking my shoulders enough, it's probably still got quite a bit wrong with it but I can at least bench without pain now.
Maybe once I get closer to Bazza's lifts I'll start having issues again, but I hope not. If i do I'll consider other exercises though.
vonfram88
Active member
I know the original poster wasn't interested in discourse on well being, however since that would be somewhat contrary to the basic tenet of "no lifter wants to see another lifter get injured", here's my view.
And by the way, opinions are like anal sphincters, everybody has one.
The dishevelled guy we all know as a former champion winces as he tries to reach for an item on an overhead shelf. His gait is awkward but there is an aura of greatness about the man. Asked - would he have done things differently had he known of the future effect on his mobility and well being?
Those with the champion mind set would answer "hell no!" That's what makes a winner a grinner and the rest - well you know what they can do.
Now isolate the deeds of greatness and set them aside. Ask the same man if he wishes he could kick a footy around in the park with his son/grandson or maybe participate in some community sporting fund raiser and not have to rely on his wife to clean the roof gutters.
In that context, we face a recognition of mortality, and maybe, just maybe a hint of regret.
So if our great man had done things differently, would he have been a champion? Unlikely. If he had been more conservative with his training, would that have prevented the accumulation of some chronic injury? On the balance of probabilities, no. The body wears out, and prolonged physical exercise of any type will take its toll on the body over time.
With almost certainty I can predict that the future veterans of self improvement will have some daily reminders of the challenges they made to themselves. There will be two classes of people at that point in time.
The first group are former champions
The other class are a mix of former champions and place-getters who still workout.
The high arch bench press is a technique that needs to be used sparingly. Now before the Emperor, resplendent in his fine garment, interjects with indignant protest, just have a look a the anatomy of the shoulder.
The design of the shoulder assembly is proof that God has a sense of humor and serves as a reminder of our own mortality. It is a dreadfully unstable and complex design. The shoulder nests in a tangled birds nest of connective tissue that makes up the rotator cuff.
Despite the mechanical advantage that can be gained by doing a high arch, the way the force is focused onto the rotator cuff is almost as if the intention was to dismember the torso. Having more of the shoulder and upper back on the bench reduces the point loading.
Yes, the high arch can increase the bench press and has its use in competition but as a mainstream volume training exercise, and especially for novices with limited foundation strength, I give it three red lights.
And by the way, opinions are like anal sphincters, everybody has one.
The dishevelled guy we all know as a former champion winces as he tries to reach for an item on an overhead shelf. His gait is awkward but there is an aura of greatness about the man. Asked - would he have done things differently had he known of the future effect on his mobility and well being?
Those with the champion mind set would answer "hell no!" That's what makes a winner a grinner and the rest - well you know what they can do.
Now isolate the deeds of greatness and set them aside. Ask the same man if he wishes he could kick a footy around in the park with his son/grandson or maybe participate in some community sporting fund raiser and not have to rely on his wife to clean the roof gutters.
In that context, we face a recognition of mortality, and maybe, just maybe a hint of regret.
So if our great man had done things differently, would he have been a champion? Unlikely. If he had been more conservative with his training, would that have prevented the accumulation of some chronic injury? On the balance of probabilities, no. The body wears out, and prolonged physical exercise of any type will take its toll on the body over time.
With almost certainty I can predict that the future veterans of self improvement will have some daily reminders of the challenges they made to themselves. There will be two classes of people at that point in time.
The first group are former champions
The other class are a mix of former champions and place-getters who still workout.
The high arch bench press is a technique that needs to be used sparingly. Now before the Emperor, resplendent in his fine garment, interjects with indignant protest, just have a look a the anatomy of the shoulder.
The design of the shoulder assembly is proof that God has a sense of humor and serves as a reminder of our own mortality. It is a dreadfully unstable and complex design. The shoulder nests in a tangled birds nest of connective tissue that makes up the rotator cuff.
Despite the mechanical advantage that can be gained by doing a high arch, the way the force is focused onto the rotator cuff is almost as if the intention was to dismember the torso. Having more of the shoulder and upper back on the bench reduces the point loading.
Yes, the high arch can increase the bench press and has its use in competition but as a mainstream volume training exercise, and especially for novices with limited foundation strength, I give it three red lights.
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Hey Oni, I watched your bench set up. You dont look tight at all. You go through the process of bringing your legs up and drive your shoulders into the bench but lose any tightness you do have when you just plop your feet down. Then you move again. If you are going to use that technique you have to be tight even before one of your feet hit the ground. If you can put your feet down easy, you are now way tight.
I train with someone who used to do the same thing. They would stuff around for ages "getting tight and getting an arch" then put their feet down or continue to fidget and lose any arch they had. They didnt even know they were doing it.
I train with someone who used to do the same thing. They would stuff around for ages "getting tight and getting an arch" then put their feet down or continue to fidget and lose any arch they had. They didnt even know they were doing it.
I bench quite narrow and flat-backed. On and off I've tried benching competition-style, with poor results. I'm much weaker, my shoulder hurts and bar speed drops and I don't gain. And yes, with 100kg paused @77kg, my bench sucks balls anyway.
I wonder if some people, due to their mechanics, are just not suited to typical big arch wide grip benching? For example, I'm 5"11 with relatively narrow shoulders and long arms - benching relatively narrow and flat-backed just seems to work much better for me.
I don't understand, how does working on technique detract from training? Unless the person is time-poor and can only spent x total minutes in the gym per week. I think the main issue here is, which is better in the long run for a big competition bench:
a) Training the bench like you would do in competition
b) Doing the majority of training with less arch and narrower grip, which arguably gives better ROM and better joint health/longevity?
This is something experienced guys like yourself would probably have an opinion on?
People are so quick to jump on the eat more/lift more bandwagon, which achieves what exactly? If you look at Oni's relative strength, posts and questions, it seems he has a fairly solid understanding in programming etc and reads widely. This is a thread about technical issues, not his size or diet.
Having lurked for a bit on these forums and read plenty of old threads, I find it interesting that often people trying to approach PLing with a technical/analytic mindset are discouraged. Seems often the general mentality here is "stop thinking, eat more" etc.
I wonder if some people, due to their mechanics, are just not suited to typical big arch wide grip benching? For example, I'm 5"11 with relatively narrow shoulders and long arms - benching relatively narrow and flat-backed just seems to work much better for me.
I don't understand, how does working on technique detract from training? Unless the person is time-poor and can only spent x total minutes in the gym per week. I think the main issue here is, which is better in the long run for a big competition bench:
a) Training the bench like you would do in competition
b) Doing the majority of training with less arch and narrower grip, which arguably gives better ROM and better joint health/longevity?
This is something experienced guys like yourself would probably have an opinion on?
People are so quick to jump on the eat more/lift more bandwagon, which achieves what exactly? If you look at Oni's relative strength, posts and questions, it seems he has a fairly solid understanding in programming etc and reads widely. This is a thread about technical issues, not his size or diet.
Having lurked for a bit on these forums and read plenty of old threads, I find it interesting that often people trying to approach PLing with a technical/analytic mindset are discouraged. Seems often the general mentality here is "stop thinking, eat more" etc.
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MickiD84
New member
I'm not jumping on any bandwagon. He's 65kg with a 75kg bench, his relative strength on bench is not impressive at all. I'm all for perfecting technique I've had to do it on my own bench press to reduce range of motion and help to prevent further shoulder injuries. How much would you expect him to gain from perfect technique without gaining any muscle/strength? Eventually he's going to have to build some muscle. To build muscle and strength you have to eat enough food to recover. If his programming is perfect like you say then why is he still so weak?
I don't understand why any guy would want to be 65kg. What are your goals Oni? How long have you been training?
0ni
Registered Rustler
So whats the tip for getting my feet down without losing tightness?
callan
The official ghetto booty
dont bring your feet up, i used to do it, but when i atarted my transition to equipped i changed my set up to suit a shirt, set your feet first, then roll back, or just lay back, then drive through your heels up on to your traps, you will feel it when you do it right, when you grab the bar, pull it appart, it will tighen your back, then do what i said before about pulling it out and resetting, pull the bar appart again when its out, maintain leg drive the whole time, it will help keep your chest up
Bench Polkov
SIR BENCHALOT
Bench Polkov
SIR BENCHALOT
A lot of time spent forcing myself into uncomfortable positions... kinda like prison showers.
Bench Polkov
SIR BENCHALOT
No, I ain't no Diesel Weasel...
0ni
Registered Rustler
Today's session was terribad
I used to set-up like that Callan but I find it hard to get right back onto my traps when I do that for some reason. Maybe I just need to practice
Also Jason Pegg told me that arching in training was fine
Jamie Lewis said that my set-up was "ridiculously extreme and your setup is premosterous. I've never seen any useful lifter carry on like that at a meet. The only people who expend that much effort on their setup are shitty lifters."
James Steel said "I think everything looks good your arch is fine and you'll continue to get strong with it. I would however, experiment with having your feet flat because you can create more force through the ground that way. Although some great benchers have benched on the balls of their feet, it's worth the attempt of keeping your feet flat. Another thing I would do is think of bending the bar in half which tucks your elbows into your sides. In addition, I would bring the bar about 2 inches lower on your chest. Let me know if this helps, and let me know if you have any other questions."
I tried today to keep my feet flat but it was impossible. I couldn't get my knees lower than my hips at all. No idea how to get my heels down... maybe it's calve flexibility?
I used to set-up like that Callan but I find it hard to get right back onto my traps when I do that for some reason. Maybe I just need to practice
Also Jason Pegg told me that arching in training was fine
Jamie Lewis said that my set-up was "ridiculously extreme and your setup is premosterous. I've never seen any useful lifter carry on like that at a meet. The only people who expend that much effort on their setup are shitty lifters."
James Steel said "I think everything looks good your arch is fine and you'll continue to get strong with it. I would however, experiment with having your feet flat because you can create more force through the ground that way. Although some great benchers have benched on the balls of their feet, it's worth the attempt of keeping your feet flat. Another thing I would do is think of bending the bar in half which tucks your elbows into your sides. In addition, I would bring the bar about 2 inches lower on your chest. Let me know if this helps, and let me know if you have any other questions."
I tried today to keep my feet flat but it was impossible. I couldn't get my knees lower than my hips at all. No idea how to get my heels down... maybe it's calve flexibility?