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The killing of America

I don't claim to know what should be done in each circumstance. But I do know that for any work, training is key. It's like... we have 579 crossfits in Australia, each one with a qualified crossfit coach, according to them that means there are at least 579 people in Australia who can coach a snatch. Ten years ago there were maybe 6 competent WL coaches in Australia. Have we really gone from 6 to 579 in 10 years? I am sceptical. If they were all training under each-other it could just be possible (1 trains 6 for 3 years, who each train 6 for 3 years, etc), but basically just about every trainer and coach in the country just lurks in their own gym and never sees other places, so... I am sceptical.

Likewise, I don't see how you can have 16,000 law enforcement agencies in a country and have them all be good at their jobs.

Now, what goes for cops goes just as much for civilians. There are a lot out there who don't know how to handle their firearms safely even when nobody's threatening them, as we see from the accident figures I posted earlier. If they can't even clean their firearm without shooting themselves, or keep it from the hands of their toddlers, how the hell are they going to deal with an assailant? In the US there are only about 300 self-defence homicides annually. They are far more likely to kill themselves or a family member by accident than they are any assailant. And that's ignoring actual suicides and family/friend homicides.

Just think of the average driver on our roads, except take away the need for a learner's permit before driving. And that's civilians in the US carrying firearms.

Training and practice.
 
Kyle Aaron said:
I don't claim to know what should be done in each circumstance. But I do know that for any work, training is key. It's like... we have 579 crossfits in Australia, each one with a qualified crossfit coach, according to them that means there are at least 579 people in Australia who can coach a snatch. Ten years ago there were maybe 6 competent WL coaches in Australia. Have we really gone from 6 to 579 in 10 years? I am sceptical. If they were all training under each-other it could just be possible (1 trains 6 for 3 years, who each train 6 for 3 years, etc), but basically just about every trainer and coach in the country just lurks in their own gym and never sees other places, so... I am sceptical.

Likewise, I don't see how you can have 16,000 law enforcement agencies in a country and have them all be good at their jobs.


Now, what goes for cops goes just as much for civilians. There are a lot out there who don't know how to handle their firearms safely even when nobody's threatening them, as we see from the accident figures I posted earlier. If they can't even clean their firearm without shooting themselves, or keep it from the hands of their toddlers, how the hell are they going to deal with an assailant? In the US there are only about 300 self-defence homicides annually. They are far more likely to kill themselves or a family member by accident than they are any assailant. And that's ignoring actual suicides and family/friend homicides.

Just think of the average driver on our roads, except take away the need for a learner's permit before driving. And that's civilians in the US carrying firearms.

Training and practice.
Click to expand...

Actual defensive gun use is much higher, since most of the time shots are not required to be fired, rather than relying on the justified homicide stat.Given it dosen't fit the mainstream media narrative, nor is it sensationalised, defensive gun uses don't tend to get publicized either. Like this one http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/30/c...a-nightclub-shooting-and-the-media-ignored-it

As an interesting aside, to be a civvie and own a pistol here you need to shoot competetively at least 6 times a year per firearm. You also have to do training for IPSC type events (drawing pistol from a holster etc).

As far as I know, police do 1 shoot a year. Some US states mandate compulsory safety training for CC (a good idea I might add).

@Johnnie Walker; I'll bite. Almost every thread I see you post in, you post all these anecdotes about how being a mentally ill junkie (by your own admissions on this forum) who works as as a doorman somehow gives you authority on unrelated matters as a substitute for an actual argument (which is in itself a logical fallacy). Given that you've proven yourself to be a compulsive liar as well, you get instantly defensive the minute your flimsy "arguments" are called out and immediately have to make yourself feel better by using personal attacks and ad hominem instead of actual points. If you are unable to offer a refutation or rebuttal without writing rubbish, could you refrain from posting, though I suspect that you get a kick from it.
 
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bozodos said:
Actual defensive gun use is much higher, since most of the time shots are not required to be fired, rather than relying on the justified homicide stat.
Click to expand...
And firearms accidents are higher, too, given that if Jim Bob down in the bayou sets off his shotgun, he just says, "dang!" shakes his head, munches on a piece of bacon journey, and tries to uncross his eye long enough to patch the hole in his roof. It doesn't get reported. Likewise if Mary-Lou's toddler grabs her firearm in the supermarket but Mary-Lou left the safety on, she just cries in alarm, grabs it off the kid and puts it back in the bag. Nor does this get reported.

Let's not focus on coulda wouldas. The fact is that American firearms-owners are far more likely to shoot and kill the owner or someone close to them accidentally than they are some assailant.

Whether you believe in carrying firearms for self-defence or not, what this says is that people need more training in safe firearms handling. Again: we don't let people drive cars without lessons and licensing, why would we let them carry firearms? And in Australia we don't, which is why we have far fewer accidental deaths from firearms. I'm not arguing for banning, I'm arguing for training. But I guess someone will always pop up to staunchly defend their right to be ignorant. America.
 
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Kyle Aaron said:
And firearms accidents are higher, too, given that if Jim Bob down in the bayou sets off his shotgun, he just says, "dang!" shakes his head, munches on a piece of bacon journey, and tries to uncross his eye long enough to patch the hole in his roof. It doesn't get reported. Likewise if Mary-Lou's toddler grabs her firearm in the supermarket but Mary-Lou left the safety on, she just cries in alarm, grabs it off the kid and puts it back in the bag. Nor does this get reported.

Let's not focus on coulda wouldas. The fact is that American firearms-owners are far more likely to shoot and kill the owner or someone close to them accidentally than they are some assailant.

Whether you believe in carrying firearms for self-defence or not, what this says is that people need more training in safe firearms handling. Again: we don't let people drive cars without lessons and licensing, why would we let them carry firearms? And in Australia we don't, which is why we have far fewer accidental deaths from firearms. I'm not arguing for banning, I'm arguing for training. But I guess someone will always pop up to staunchly defend their right to be ignorant. America.
Click to expand...

More training for CCW or firearms use in general? A lot of the accidental shootings come down to an issue of personal responsibility, like having loaded firearms anywhere near where children can get them. The NRA runs safety classes for children to try and take some of the mystery away from firearms, which are apparently quite effective.
 
I took my son to a shooting range once, I was sweating bullets (sorry for the pun) everytime he picked up and shot a gun.
He got to shoot a Magnum and even an old musket.
Couldn't get out of there quick enough.
 
bozodos said:
Bud you have mentioned steroid and recreational drug use multiple times, I CBF looking up specific examples. Again with your BS, all the arguements you've gotten into with Bazza and Vonfram to name but a few.

A cop in a life or death situation with an armed assailant isn't the same as collaring drunk people when you're sober. How much security training do you have, or is it just 'personal experience'?

Do you have something to say, or are you going to mention more personal anecdotes to make yourself sound like an authority?
Click to expand...


and what makes you think i havnt been in life or death situations? already refered to the knife problems in scotland if you could read. also mentioned i did close quarter combat training for yeeeaaars under one of the best guys wround. just proves you dont even read people posts, to busy thinking up your own drivel to post.

you are the one here with 0 expeience and your not even man enough to admit it.
 
I think a good bouncer and a good cop will share a solid understanding of how to react, and with who, by assessing the danger.

I have seen some good bouncers in action, and they can be smart guys, not thugs.

I have also seen some that are just thugs.
 
spartacus said:
I think a good bouncer and a good cop will share a solid understanding of how to react, and who with, by assessing the danger.

I have seen some good bouncers in action, and they can be smart guys, not thugs.

I have also seen some that are just thugs.
Click to expand...


exactly, obviously plenty of twats about but plenty of top noch guys. almost all my doorman mates back home have served, several of them in the royal marines, they are switched on.. you need to be in places like scotland, not soft cock central like aus.

would love to see bozo tell some of the guys back home they are less than security guards and nothing more than a white shirt lol.
 
spartacus said:
I think a good bouncer and a good cop will share a solid understanding of how to react, and who with, by assessing the danger.

I have seen some good bouncers in action, and they can be smart guys, not thugs.

I have also seen some that are just thugs.
Click to expand...

Again sorting out pissed kunce in a club is totally different to actual policing. Most bouncers I know are people who are employed because they enjoy fighting or look tough. No training required. The best bouncers I've seen were those who would avoid physical confrontations before they started. That's a different topic where the usual suspects can share their stories to their hearts content though.

Having seen some of the absolute scum and fucked situations that cops have to deal with daily (even here in regional Australia), I can only imagine what it would be like in poor areas of the US. It's also fairly simple. Comply and don't get shot (in the overwhelming majority of times) or fight, struggle and play Russian roulette that you're not being assessed as trying to use deadly force and be shot. A little personal responsibility goes a long way.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399 More whites are killed by cops than blacks, however less lethal force is used more on blacks, but context is also important with that finding.

I'll never understand why people have an irrational fear or hatred of guns, to me they're the same as any other sporting implement or tool.
 
bozodos said:
.......

I'll never understand why people have an irrational fear or hatred of guns, to me they're the same as any other sporting implement or tool.
Click to expand...
Come on bozo, you were doing well untill this silly statement.
There is nothing irrational about not liking guns,, that does not mean it's a fear or hatred.
What is irrational are gun owners and sympathisers not understanding that not everyone likes guns as much as they do.
Guns were not invented for sport, nor were they invented as a tool.
 
Darkoz said:
Come on bozo, you were doing well untill this silly statement.
There is nothing irrational about not liking guns,, that does not mean it's a fear or hatred.
What is irrational are gun owners and sympathisers not understanding that not everyone likes guns as much as they do.
Guns were not invented for sport, nor were they invented as a tool.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with not liking them, most people who say that in my experience say it because they are scared of them, or think they are all only designed to kill people though. If you've gone to a range, had a go (or watched it) and then decided that you still don't like them, fair enough.

Different guns are made for different purposes, some suit more than one. Some are works of art, and some are collectors items. Some are pure sporting implements. Some are cheaply made things designed purely for use as a tool for pest eradication.

I firmly believe that gun control is the epitome of regulating things to be seen to be doing something. People regulation is common sense.
 
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