The killing of America

[Repacked]

There could be more in it repacked, but I think the options will become increasingly conflictual.

I am not suggesting for one minute we should discuss that here...

 

[Repacked]

Again you just have to disagree with me despite agreeing with me.

There is more to it than my two sentence example. Lol. No shit.

Now you are trying to change what I said. I didn't say that all in the Middle East are waiting to become terrorists. My point was why I don't believe bombing them is going to change the current cycle of terrorism.

You really need to stop trying to change what I am saying so you can disagree with me.

1. I wasn't replying to you.

2. I would hope that even you aren't as stupid as to think that there isn't more to the situation, but that begs the question -

3. Why make stupid generalisations that contradict what you say you think and whinge when someone calls you on your BS? Use your words Baz.... and think about the implications of what you actually do say.

It's probably my fault for assuming that some thought has gone into what you write beyond translating a thought bubble into a series of keystrokes.

 

[Bazza20]

No Baz, what you really said is below -



Don't disguise 'agreeing' with furthering the argument by saying that I have to disagree with you. That's schoolyard games and the type of technique you rely on.

If you were genuinely saying we are agreeing you would have written 'I agree', or 'yes, we are agreeing'.

This is gold. Now you are trying to disagree with me about how the word agreed is used.

 

[Repacked]

This is gold. Now you are trying to disagree with me about how the word agreed is used.

You are a child.

 

[Bazza20]

You are a child.

I agree. Lol.

 

[Repacked]

I agree. Lol.

We must both be wrong then.

 

[Fadi]

Start here -http://intpolicydigest.org/2014/10/20/the-rise-of-isis-who-s-to-blame/

World News /20 Oct 2014 Kasra Shahhosseini
The Rise of ISIS: Who’s to Blame?

"Neither airstrikes nor boots-on-the-ground can defeat ISIS; even if Muslim and Western countries can ever manage to take out its leaders. There will be another surfer–i.e. the Nusra Front– to carry the Black Banner of the Tawheed (the Shahada Flag) on waves of Islamism trying to reach the utopia of the caliphate.

In fact, the very same radical interpretation of Islam is what should be blamed for the rise of the Islamic State. Theologically, Islam is based on the Quran and the sunnah that is the traditions of Prophet Muhammad, the Four Righteous Caliphs and the first pious Muslims.

Dreams of reconstructing an Islamic caliphate will fade away as other radical ideologies of the past did, and ISIS will be vanished from the face of history along with radical interpretations of Islam which have brought it to power."

Repacked, it is more than likely that Kasra is a secular Muslim (if he considers himself a Muslim at all that is), and is coming from a background of Shia Islam. I felt it necessary to bring this up because of the last two paragraphs he decided to end his article with. In fact if you read it carefully, you'd find that he actually contradicts himself by getting more than a bit mixed up with what is a radical interpretation of Islam and what is a truly theological Islam.

Again I speak as someone who practices Islam as I find it written down, looking at what I would consider the moderate interpretation of Islam. Not the wishy-washy/apologetic Islam of some, neither the extreme radical who can not accept anyone else's interpretation of the text. Having said that, the moderate interpretation of some highly regarded scholars of our modern era, would take on (and not surprising to some), a much more radical interpretation if and when the time and place allows it (according to their knowledge and understanding of Islam). Now who is to blame for such a radical shift in interpretation is up for a debate amongst Muslims scholars themselves. An important point to keep in mind here is that the message of Islam is dynamic; it has full potential for responding to the needs of the contemporary world. However, it is important to distinguish between what is religiously binding and what is not on the one hand, and between new happenings of the modern times that are necessary to be taken seriously and the ones that need to be condemned or ignored.

The above is only words if I don't give you a real and live example of what I'm talking about: suicide bombing, it can't get more serious than this I'm sure. So allow me to share with you what I know re this subject matter, and how it fits into our discussion. The Qur'an's message is very clear when it comes to human life:

The sanctity of Human Life
Al- Quran 6:151 “…take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.”

Islam considers all life forms as sacred. However, the sanctity of human life is accorded a special place. The first and the foremost basic right of a human being is the right to live. The Glorious Quran says:

Al- Quran 5:32 “…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”

Islam Condemns Violence

"Not only did the terrorists hijack planes and destroy life, but they also hijacked the peaceful religion of Islam and split the brother and sisterhood of mankind." Yusuf Islam... formerly known as Cat Stevens.

Hatred, violence and the sad demise of Yusuf Al Qaradawi/suicide bombing

http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...lence-and-the-sad-demise-of-yusuf-al-qaradawi

"In one of his best-known fatwas, issued in the 1990s, Sheikh Al Qaradawi permitted the use of suicide bombing as a defensive tactic against Israel. Since then, instead of retracting the fatwa, he has repeatedly responded by saying that he was not the only cleric to justify suicide operations and that his fatwa was tailored specifically for helpless Palestinians in their fight against the Israeli occupation."

After reading more words and listening to more people on both sides debate/discuss the issue, I personally feel nothing will be solved until ignorance and arrogance were first checked out at the door. I've written here few days ago that no one (or most ignorants) in the west seem to have an allergy to asking the "why" question, behaving as if it either did not exist, does not apply, or perhaps it's rather a tactic used to evade the real issue and divert attention away from their wrongful deeds or support of wrongful deeds committed overseas.

When one man is in denial of another man's grievances (on purpose), all words spoken and actions taken are nothing more than a waste of a real opportunity to right the wrong that would allow both parties to move forward.

Please note big R, some people (especially bigots, and we've got some on this forum), are simply not interested in moving forward, yet they'd be the first ones to cry like a bashful maiden when a calamity hits. I have no sympathy for such sub-humans, and I do not make a distinction between them and a radically minded Muslim; they deserve each other, for they speak the same language of hate that is fueled by ignorance and an air of superiority based on nothing more than unfounded arrogance.

 

[Repacked]

World News /20 Oct 2014Kasra Shahhosseini
The Rise of ISIS: Who’s to Blame?

"Neither airstrikes nor boots-on-the-ground can defeat ISIS; even if Muslim and Westerncountries can ever manage to take out its leaders. There will be another surfer–i.e. the Nusra Front– to carry the Black Banner of the Tawheed(the Shahada Flag) on waves of Islamism trying to reach theutopia of the caliphate.

In fact, the very same radicalinterpretation of Islam is what should be blamed for the rise of the IslamicState. Theologically, Islam is based on the Quran and the sunnah that is the traditions ofProphet Muhammad, the Four Righteous Caliphs and the first pious Muslims.

Dreams of reconstructing an Islamiccaliphate will fade away as other radical ideologies of the past did, and ISISwill be vanished from the face of history along with radical interpretations ofIslam which have brought it to power."

Repacked, it is more than likely that Kasra is a secular Muslim (if he considers himself a Muslim at all that is), and is coming from a background of Shia Islam. I felt it necessary to bring this up because of the last two paragraphs he decided to end his article with. In fact if you read it carefully, you'd find that he actually contradicts himself by getting more than a bit mixed up with what is a radical interpretation of Islam and what is a truly theological Islam.

Again I speak as someone who practices Islam as I find it written down, looking at what I would consider the moderate interpretation of Islam. Not the wishy-washy/apologetic Islam of some, neither the extreme radical who can not accept anyone else's interpretation of the text. Having said that, the moderate interpretation of some highly regarded scholars of our modern era, would take on (and not surprising to some), a much more radical interpretation if and when the time and place allows it (according to their knowledge and understanding of Islam). Now who is to blame for such a radical shift in interpretation is up for a debate amongst Muslims scholars themselves. An important point to keep in mind here is thatthe message of Islam is dynamic; it hasfull potential for responding to the needs of the contemporary world. However,it is important to distinguish between what is religiously binding and what isnot on the one hand and between new happenings of the modern times that arenecessary to be taken seriously and the ones that need to be condemned orignored.

The above is only words if I don't give you a real and live example of what I'm talking about: suicide bombing, it can't get more serious than this I'm sure. So allow me to share with you what I know re this subject matter, and how it fits into our discussion. The Qur'an's message is very clear when it comes to human life:

The sanctity of Human Life
Al- Quran 6:151 “…take not life, which God hath made sacred,except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learnwisdom.”

Islam considers all life forms as sacred.However, the sanctity of human life is accorded a special place. The first andthe foremost basic right of a human being is the right to live. The GloriousQuran says:

Al- Quran 5:32 “…ifany one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief inthe land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved alife, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”

Islam Condemns Violence

"Not only did the terrorists hijackplanes and destroy life, but they also hijacked the peaceful religion of Islamand split the brother and sisterhood of mankind." Yusuf Islam... formerly known as Cat Stevens.

Hatred, violence and the sad demise of Yusuf Al Qaradawi/suicide bombing

http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...lence-and-the-sad-demise-of-yusuf-al-qaradawi

"In one of his best-known fatwas, issued inthe 1990s, Sheikh Al Qaradawi permitted the use of suicide bombing as adefensive tactic against Israel. Since then, instead of retracting the fatwa,he has repeatedly responded by saying that he was not the only cleric tojustify suicide operations and that his fatwa was tailored specifically forhelpless Palestinians in their fight against the Israeli occupation."

After reading more words and listening to more people on both sides debate/discuss the issue, I personally feel nothing will be solved until ignorance and arrogance were first checked out at the door. I've written here few days ago that no one (or most ignorants) in the west seem to have an allergy to asking the "why" question, behaving as if it either did not exist, does not apply, or perhaps it's rather a tactic used to evade the real issue and divert attention away from their wrongful deeds or support of wrongful deeds committed overseas.

When one man is in denial of another man's grievances (on purpose), all words spoken and actions taken are nothing more than a waste of a real opportunity to right the wrong that would allow both parties to move forward.

Please note big R, some people (especially bigots, and we've got some on this forum), are simply not interested in moving forward, yet they'd be the first ones to cry like a bashful maiden when a calamity hits. I have no sympathy for such sub-humans, and I do not make a distinction between them and a radically minded Muslim; they deserve each other, for they speak the same language of hate that is fueled by ignorance and an air of superiority based on nothing more than unfounded arrogance.

Funnily enough at the end of that post I actually typed 'someone like Fadi may be better able to elucidate the complex relationships in the Middle East' but then deleted it so as not to drag you into the quagmire.

Thanks for providing some valuable perspective on a complicated topic. As always much appreciated. If anything I posted caused offence I apologise, I was simply trying to highlight the fact that it was a complex situation.

 

[Fadi]

Funnily enough at the end of that post I actually typed 'someone like Fadi may be better able to elucidate the complex relationships in the Middle East' but then deleted it so as not to drag you into the quagmire.

Thanks for providing some valuable perspective on a complicated topic. As always much appreciated. If anything I posted caused offence I apologise, I was simply trying to highlight the fact that it was a complex situation.

No, no offence in what you write at all big R. It's a real shame though that we can not have a meaningful discussion here about the real and current issues that potentially affects each and everyone of us in this country. I watched the full Q & A episode with Pauline Hanson and others last night, and thought to myself, things can not but escalate negatively from here if people choose to bury their heads in the sand.

I do not believe (the majority) here on this forum is much interested in a Muslim like myself elucidating on any topic that is relevant to our current affairs big R. On the contrary (and it's unfortunately so), what most are really interested in as far as Islam or a Muslim is concerned, is bit of a verbal war of sort, an approach I have not resorted to nor would I resort to for obvious reasons. Evidently, some haters on this forum are misdirecting their hate and anger towards the wrong person, wrongfully making a comparison between myself and the abusers who they've come across on other social media platforms.

For as much as Ms. Pauline Hanson cries "FEAR!" when it comes to the Muslim community (of whom I and my 6 family members are part of), the Muslim community is also feeling that same fear she's referring to. Is she so blind as to not realise that we're all in this together. A bomb thrown into a crowd does not discriminate between a Muslim and a non-Muslim. The anger towards Muslims spilt onto the streets when they were targeted here just 3 weeks ago http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-...fiti-attack-at-thornlie-mosque-school/7552394, yet I have heard of no retaliation against non-Muslims by the Muslim community, because we know these acts are committed by ignorant lunatic haters, and not some organized group claiming allegiance to the One Nation Party for example.

Now the rules for those lunatics have dramatically changed as from the 2nd of July 2016 because of this One Nation Party, a party that is more about dividing through the power and reliance on people's ignorance and fears, than it is about uniting us all as one harmonious community called the Australian community.

When Pauline was asked if her policy on Islam was driven or born out of fear, hate or ignorance..., she replied "FEAR!" That word made me go look up Australian history to see what FEAR must have been really like in those days of sanctioned human massacres. FEAR is a word I'm very familiar with Ms.Hanson (if I could reach and tell her), I have experienced and know what it means to be fearful, having been sniped at and hearing the bullets ricochet whilst seeing the dust rise near me at the age of 9 back home in war torn Lebanon.

Asked back in 1982 whether I wanted to represent Lebanon or Australia as an Olympic weightlifter, I immediately and automatically thought the question strange..., because it's a non question for me. I get goosebumps upon hearing the Australian national anthem being played, but only laugh and shake my head upon hearing the Lebanese national anthem. Goosebumps do not rely on a thought process that comes from our rational mind, but rather operate fully on the emotional mind with no time to think or blink an eyelid.

No one wants to walk down the street feeling fearful for himself or his family in this country, no one! Each one of us has a roll to play in what is currently being said publicly and otherwise in this country, and each one of us has a responsibility and a duty of care towards others, irrespective of background colour or creed.

 

[Grunta]

If you read what I wrote I said there is truth in it; undoubtedly chickens coming home to roost is an element in the rdicalisation of some people. However, unfortunately what Baz and yourself have managed to do is reduce a complex situation with roots in tribalism (Sunni/Shia), religious interpretation/politics (secularism vs Islamism) among others factors, to one thing - revenge. Also successfully generalised that an entire region with a population of roughly a quarter of a billion is full of people who are either looking or an excuse to become a terrorist, or whose ethics lead them there as they feel it is a justified course of action. Maybe, just maybe, there's a little more to it...

Start here -

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/syria-iraq-incubators-isis-jihad

http://intpolicydigest.org/2014/10/20/the-rise-of-isis-who-s-to-blame/

No not saying the entire region is looking to become a terrorist, just the ones who's homes were bombed.

 

[Fadi]

This one is bizarre. I mean what exactly does a man have to do in order not to get shot in this situation? Can someone enlighten me on this please? Serious question here. “Sir (the victim asks the officer)…why did you shoot me?” Officer: “I don’t know.” I know we always say oh there may be more to it than what we’ve seen. In this day and age of technology when people are recording the shooting and streaming it live onto social media (as in my OP), people are still like “oh yeh but you never know man; he could have been reaching for…. .”