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Demoralised and looking for advice
- Thread starter Nic
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- advice demoralised
Ok, so you can't cope with being asked questions. Maybe you take it as a challenge to your authority? I don't know, it's your issue, not mine. Turn around and blame it on the 'client' if it helps you sleep at night.
PTC said:
Congratulations to you and your trainees. Your obviously doing something right, no debate there. Shame you can't seriously try to engage with what I'm saying though.
This is my experience with 8 rep squats. After 3-5 my form goes to shit. Bad good-morning out of the hole.
haz said:
UTS
Nic.
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Kyle Aaron
Active member
Of course.
Same goes for any routine, or anything, really. Actually learning about and trying something gives you a different perspective.
Many people would rather spend 30 hours on the internet than 30 minutes lifting iron. "But I have to get it perfect!" No, you just have to do it, try it and see. Typing is easy, lifting is hard.
I understand his manner, make no mistake. That's not an excuse though. And don't worry, whether or it it was intended to be offensive, I try to make it a rule not to get too hung up by what people posting on internet forums have to say.
Dancelot said:
For the record I'm not bitching about SS. Also for the record, I have SS, the SS DVD and Practical Programming on pdf file. I've read the former, will give PP a go sometime this holidays.
hyjack said:
It was a slight exageration, but I can guarantee you even when dropping the weight 20kg, by the eighth rep you can notice the decline in form.
Nic.
CaT_SPeW
extra crispy
yep that will happen, its all part of lifting heavy weights. i can tell you everyone that lifts will find their form declines when pushing hard on the last few reps, theres no way you can do perfect form exercises on every rep if your putting in max effort. i could go and do 3 x 8 perfect form squats but i'd probably only be working at about 60% and cruising through my workouts, to progress i'd need to be doing higher than that and that would mean some less than perfect form on some reps.
They all did when they started, thats my point.
Nick got to 162.5kg x 20 @ 107kg
Max did 125kg x 20 @ 70kg
Kelly did 130kg x 20 @ 82kg
Alen did 130kg x 20 @ 85kg
All these efforts are on the ns.com website
I didnt post my BP for shits and giggles. Have you read the "Shorty" newsletter, it documents his traing from day one, all the way to a 500kg+ raw total @ 70kg in competition.
He did PTC BP for months, not weeks.
No one strong at PTC has excluded 20 rep squats. Only those that have never got to 1.5 x bw 20 reppers question them.
Max, Alen, Nick and Dim did them religiously, EVERY session. They followed BP, 3 times a week for around 6 weeks.
Max was actually aiming for double bodyweight x 20, he got to 140kg x 10.
You know there's a reason why these boys are so strong.
James was once doing around 150kg x 20, at 10 he was going to quit, so I took the squat stands and threw them outside, he got 20, true story.
Nick got to 162.5kg x 20 @ 107kg
Max did 125kg x 20 @ 70kg
Kelly did 130kg x 20 @ 82kg
Alen did 130kg x 20 @ 85kg
All these efforts are on the ns.com website
I didnt post my BP for shits and giggles. Have you read the "Shorty" newsletter, it documents his traing from day one, all the way to a 500kg+ raw total @ 70kg in competition.
He did PTC BP for months, not weeks.
No one strong at PTC has excluded 20 rep squats. Only those that have never got to 1.5 x bw 20 reppers question them.
Max, Alen, Nick and Dim did them religiously, EVERY session. They followed BP, 3 times a week for around 6 weeks.
Max was actually aiming for double bodyweight x 20, he got to 140kg x 10.
You know there's a reason why these boys are so strong.
James was once doing around 150kg x 20, at 10 he was going to quit, so I took the squat stands and threw them outside, he got 20, true story.
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I did Rips program for 6 months. By the time I got to month 6 with a 170kg 5RM beltless I couldnt deadlift every session anymore, nor could I squat my max x3 a week. Arn't those sort of things obvious?
I milked the crap out of my beginner cycle, i dont think I could have had the volume been higher.
I milked the crap out of my beginner cycle, i dont think I could have had the volume been higher.
What I'm saying is this:
Lets take a 5x5 x3 a week deadlift program.
A rank novice can get away with this - two bucks on either end and they could go all day.
but given real progress - like 2-3 months and he'll hit a wall. Unlike your trainers who have someone to watch over them and tell them when enough is enough most people will continue with a 'no pain, no gain' mentality, unfortunately no gain either.
On the other hand, have him deadlift once a week for 1x5, he'll probably hit a wall come 6-8 months.
I'm not even saying deadlift once a week. 3 can be done, but expecting someone to perform TWO sets of widowmakers (is that even ****ing possible?) every session is not going to deliver the long term results that 3x10 on your other program will.
You have your experience of training people who could do 2 sets of widow makers every sessions, I have mine. Despite eating 5000-7000 calories a day (3L of milk and 1kg of red meat) about 4 months in (I think i was squatting 130-140 @ 85kg) squatting 3x5 x3 a week wasnt working for me, and i kept finding that if i skipped a session (reducing my squats to x2 a week) I got better results.
Lets take a 5x5 x3 a week deadlift program.
A rank novice can get away with this - two bucks on either end and they could go all day.
but given real progress - like 2-3 months and he'll hit a wall. Unlike your trainers who have someone to watch over them and tell them when enough is enough most people will continue with a 'no pain, no gain' mentality, unfortunately no gain either.
On the other hand, have him deadlift once a week for 1x5, he'll probably hit a wall come 6-8 months.
I'm not even saying deadlift once a week. 3 can be done, but expecting someone to perform TWO sets of widowmakers (is that even ****ing possible?) every session is not going to deliver the long term results that 3x10 on your other program will.
You have your experience of training people who could do 2 sets of widow makers every sessions, I have mine. Despite eating 5000-7000 calories a day (3L of milk and 1kg of red meat) about 4 months in (I think i was squatting 130-140 @ 85kg) squatting 3x5 x3 a week wasnt working for me, and i kept finding that if i skipped a session (reducing my squats to x2 a week) I got better results.
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Christian
Active Member, June10MOTM
I would like to know your caffeine intake during this time of your training, As you seem to mention alot that you can not take any real volume. If you CNS is smashed i can understand why and maybe that is a reason?
I have just started a full body 5x5 program, I do the same workout 3x per week.
Bench
Weighted Chins
Squats
Seated OH press
Deadlift
I used to only squat/deadlift once a week, or not at all, doing it 3x per week is tough already, and I'm only up to my 3rd sessions, once the weights get up, I'm going to have to break it up.
Bench
Weighted Chins
Squats
Seated OH press
Deadlift
I used to only squat/deadlift once a week, or not at all, doing it 3x per week is tough already, and I'm only up to my 3rd sessions, once the weights get up, I'm going to have to break it up.
No question it takes time to adapt. But what happens when you do?
Here is why I got Max's group to start the 3 x week program.
His group was always competing at every PTC comp. First comp, Max deadlifts 140kg, and was wasted. Second comp he opens with 170kg, cant take another attempt, he is fried.
Obviously, this was no good. In powerlifting, the comp doesnt start till the bar hits the floor, you HAVE to have more than 1 attempt in you. At the time they were training each lift once a week.
We switched to the BP, same workout every session, 3 x week, for around 6 weeks. It nearly killed them, because they were not novices, and Max was squatting over 1.5 x bw x 20 for evey single session, 3 x week for 6 weeks. He actually started at 1.5 x bw.
At the Vics, he pulled 200kg on his first attempt to be in the game, 207.5kg for the total record on his second, 212.5kg for the deadlift record on his 3rd and 215kg on his fourth to set it even higher. This from a kid who had struggled with a single attempt of 170kg 8 months earlier.
What I'm seeing here is guys that have never competed and therefore never been tested, complaining about volume and telling me what they cant do.
If your happy with your progress, stick with your program.
I'm just giving you examples of what can be done if you truly stretch yourselves.
The rest of Max's group performed similar. Dim pulled 190kg @ 71kg and Alen is up to 220kg @ 85kg. Dim even had a crack at 200kg at the Vics and got it above his knees.
For the record, the guys are doing PPP now and training the deadlift just once a week, but you expect that as you approach triple bodyweight. They did BP at a time when they needed it.
I can tell you now, they will be doing it again next season for at least 4 weeks.
Here is why I got Max's group to start the 3 x week program.
His group was always competing at every PTC comp. First comp, Max deadlifts 140kg, and was wasted. Second comp he opens with 170kg, cant take another attempt, he is fried.
Obviously, this was no good. In powerlifting, the comp doesnt start till the bar hits the floor, you HAVE to have more than 1 attempt in you. At the time they were training each lift once a week.
We switched to the BP, same workout every session, 3 x week, for around 6 weeks. It nearly killed them, because they were not novices, and Max was squatting over 1.5 x bw x 20 for evey single session, 3 x week for 6 weeks. He actually started at 1.5 x bw.
At the Vics, he pulled 200kg on his first attempt to be in the game, 207.5kg for the total record on his second, 212.5kg for the deadlift record on his 3rd and 215kg on his fourth to set it even higher. This from a kid who had struggled with a single attempt of 170kg 8 months earlier.
What I'm seeing here is guys that have never competed and therefore never been tested, complaining about volume and telling me what they cant do.
If your happy with your progress, stick with your program.
I'm just giving you examples of what can be done if you truly stretch yourselves.
The rest of Max's group performed similar. Dim pulled 190kg @ 71kg and Alen is up to 220kg @ 85kg. Dim even had a crack at 200kg at the Vics and got it above his knees.
For the record, the guys are doing PPP now and training the deadlift just once a week, but you expect that as you approach triple bodyweight. They did BP at a time when they needed it.
I can tell you now, they will be doing it again next season for at least 4 weeks.
Kyle Aaron
Active member
Starting Strength has you deadlift every second session, and for only one work set of 5 reps. So if you were doing multiple sets of deadlifts every session, you weren't doing the programme.
Which isn't a sin or anything, but you can't complan that a recipe didn't work as advertised if you didn't follow the recipe.
I suspect there was something else going on there. As well as calories there's nutrition, vitamins and stuff. You'd be getting something like 5,000kcal just from the milk and meat, so I wonder if you had any vegies, fruit, nuts and beans. It's not just energy we need. As well, there's the issue of rest. Many people don't get enough good sleep.Oliver04 said:
I don't know your age, either. As we get older our recovery slows down, we need more of a warmup, etc. And of course there are various health issues to be considered. Most weight training advice is directed at healthy young adult males.
I'm glad you found a way that worked for you. In the end, all that counts is results - if you found a way that worked for you, then nothing else matters. Just bear in mind that the way things worked for you isn't the only possible way things could work.Oliver04 said:
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1-2 coffees.