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Demoralised and looking for advice
- Thread starter Nic
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- advice demoralised
Seven months of lifting, 89kg guy
1 rep max:
Squat: 110kg
Bench: 55kg
DL: 140kg
6 months of lifting, 82kg
1 rep max:
Squat 115kg
Bench 65kg
Deadlift 135kg
Dimi is a very strong girl though.
Nic, you simply dont train hard enough, thats it, its not the program, the volume, the exercises, the frequency.
You simply need to train hard.
You can read about Dimi in the ladies threads if you want, just in case you dont believe me, and she lost 15kg in the process.
The only advantage over you she had was that she performed every single session she has ever done under the watchful eye of a coach.
1 rep max:
Squat: 110kg
Bench: 55kg
DL: 140kg
6 months of lifting, 82kg
1 rep max:
Squat 115kg
Bench 65kg
Deadlift 135kg
Dimi is a very strong girl though.
Nic, you simply dont train hard enough, thats it, its not the program, the volume, the exercises, the frequency.
You simply need to train hard.
You can read about Dimi in the ladies threads if you want, just in case you dont believe me, and she lost 15kg in the process.
The only advantage over you she had was that she performed every single session she has ever done under the watchful eye of a coach.
Kyle Aaron
Active member
Oh well if we're doing that....
We'll call her Julie, 71kg (was 75kg), 75cm waist (was 83cm)
5 months, including 1 month in the middle training alone
Started with 3 knee pressups and 10 lunges as max.
Now chinups 3
FSQ 65kg 2x15 (lift limited by clean strength)
DL, 110kg 2x6
OHP 30kg 2x6
Two sessions a week with front squats, deadlifts and overhead presses. Had to build up to those exercises, of course. Other two sessions are machine circuit training followed by aerobics or Pilates, nothing to do with me. Good diet, eats heaps of vegies and nuts and beans, doesn't complain when the weight and reps go up. Never missed one of 36 sessions, once was sick so we had a sit-down with anatomy book instead.
Doesn't have strength as her goal, just wants to look good and do better in netball.
As for training frequency, Tablesalt on our forum does a workout every day.
Working out every day, he has achieved FSQ 97.5, SQ 110, MP 60, BP 77.5, DL 125. Pretty bloody good when he's 60kg. How on Earth did he manage it? Consistent effort over time. It got him results.
In every session he does some kind of squatting. Sometimes he stops the session after squatting because he feels tired. But then, he has cystic fibrosis with a FEV of 27% and is awaiting a lung transplant. So if you say that squatting 3 times a week is too much for you, then you are telling us that you have less recovery capacity than a guy with cystic fibrosis.
Not all of us can be as mentally tough as Tablesalt obviously is. But we can be inspired by guys like him to be a bit harder than we are.
We'll call her Julie, 71kg (was 75kg), 75cm waist (was 83cm)
5 months, including 1 month in the middle training alone
Started with 3 knee pressups and 10 lunges as max.
Now chinups 3
FSQ 65kg 2x15 (lift limited by clean strength)
DL, 110kg 2x6
OHP 30kg 2x6
Two sessions a week with front squats, deadlifts and overhead presses. Had to build up to those exercises, of course. Other two sessions are machine circuit training followed by aerobics or Pilates, nothing to do with me. Good diet, eats heaps of vegies and nuts and beans, doesn't complain when the weight and reps go up. Never missed one of 36 sessions, once was sick so we had a sit-down with anatomy book instead.
Doesn't have strength as her goal, just wants to look good and do better in netball.
As for training frequency, Tablesalt on our forum does a workout every day.
Working out every day, he has achieved FSQ 97.5, SQ 110, MP 60, BP 77.5, DL 125. Pretty bloody good when he's 60kg. How on Earth did he manage it? Consistent effort over time. It got him results.
In every session he does some kind of squatting. Sometimes he stops the session after squatting because he feels tired. But then, he has cystic fibrosis with a FEV of 27% and is awaiting a lung transplant. So if you say that squatting 3 times a week is too much for you, then you are telling us that you have less recovery capacity than a guy with cystic fibrosis.
Not all of us can be as mentally tough as Tablesalt obviously is. But we can be inspired by guys like him to be a bit harder than we are.
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Kyle Aaron
Active member
Yes I explained it many times.
I said you could start off with 1kg 1x1 if you wanted, so long as you did more in every session. But no coach or trainer would start anyone at that unless they were - well, unless they should have been in the care of a medical specialist.
If you started with high volume, that'd be okay, too. And if you started with low volume, that'd also be okay. But Oli was saying, no, it's impossible, only low volume works except for these amazingly talented naturals. Which is bollocks.
Both work, both have different purposes. Do low volume and you'll have trouble at comps and in sports, as Markos said. But if you're doing no sport and just want a smaller bum or bigger chesticles you won't care. And it appears you need the higher volume to get past plateaus, too - that's something I wouldn't know about just yet, so for now I'll trust the experienced coach.
This is the sort of stuff you just have to try it and see what happens. Lots of stuff when written down looks easy or hard, turns out to be different in practice.
"Lie down with this dumbell, press it in the air, and stand up while keeping it up there." Turkish Get Up, sounds easy, fcking hard.
Then this sort of routine offered, sounds impossible, turns out to be hard not impossible. Same with working out every day.
I said you could start off with 1kg 1x1 if you wanted, so long as you did more in every session. But no coach or trainer would start anyone at that unless they were - well, unless they should have been in the care of a medical specialist.
If you started with high volume, that'd be okay, too. And if you started with low volume, that'd also be okay. But Oli was saying, no, it's impossible, only low volume works except for these amazingly talented naturals. Which is bollocks.
Both work, both have different purposes. Do low volume and you'll have trouble at comps and in sports, as Markos said. But if you're doing no sport and just want a smaller bum or bigger chesticles you won't care. And it appears you need the higher volume to get past plateaus, too - that's something I wouldn't know about just yet, so for now I'll trust the experienced coach.
This is the sort of stuff you just have to try it and see what happens. Lots of stuff when written down looks easy or hard, turns out to be different in practice.
"Lie down with this dumbell, press it in the air, and stand up while keeping it up there." Turkish Get Up, sounds easy, fcking hard.
Then this sort of routine offered, sounds impossible, turns out to be hard not impossible. Same with working out every day.
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Who told you this? You can either use a higher intensity or higher volume (or if you are crazy both together) or lower volume or intensity. It depends on why you are stalling. A plateau can be due to many reasons.
Oli is suggesting not to jump into a high volume workout unless you know the signs that it is too much for you as if you do not know how to adjust a workout then you can easily burnout. Some people have this problem of not being able to tolerate volume and some don't, this is why it is great to have a coach. I like Rippetoe's program for beginners but I have also suggested Markos' program to many as I find the the volume to be fine (the non 2x20 setters program though).
Kyle Aaron
Active member
Given that an underweight CF guy awaiting a lung transplant can squat every day, I think the problem of not being able to tolerate volume has got to be mental rather than physical.
****. I thought this was over and done with after markos' lolsy post.
Kyle, 'Volume' per se is ****ing mute, it doesnt mean anything. I could have high volume lifting a packet of chips and go all day. What if I simply took my 1RM and tried to perform it over and over again all day? assume I ate my beans, was consistent and 'believed' in what I was doing. What would happen then?
A beginner is a different equation though. Concepts of 'intensity' and 'volume' are meaningless because every time they step into the gym they have a new 1RM, its like a completely different person. But what happens to them after the first month or two (and truly it is only a month with decent programming) when they get to 140kg? will they get much out of doing your 1RM sessions or are we at a similar situation to the one I mentioned previously?
So, rather than going balls to the wall at first, why the **** not adopt a more moderate approach which can sustain progress longer?
Kyle, 'Volume' per se is ****ing mute, it doesnt mean anything. I could have high volume lifting a packet of chips and go all day. What if I simply took my 1RM and tried to perform it over and over again all day? assume I ate my beans, was consistent and 'believed' in what I was doing. What would happen then?
A beginner is a different equation though. Concepts of 'intensity' and 'volume' are meaningless because every time they step into the gym they have a new 1RM, its like a completely different person. But what happens to them after the first month or two (and truly it is only a month with decent programming) when they get to 140kg? will they get much out of doing your 1RM sessions or are we at a similar situation to the one I mentioned previously?
So, rather than going balls to the wall at first, why the **** not adopt a more moderate approach which can sustain progress longer?
That is just stupid, for one Tablesalt will start lifting some days and start throwing up during the warmup and have to stop, not the best example of tolerating volume. Also it is ONE person you are using for all, shit he may be able to tolerate huge amounts of volume if it wasn't for his lungs, he may have the neurological and muscular recovery surpassing both of us put together, who knows. Using one person as an example for motivational purposes is all well and good, using one person as an example for tolerance of lifting is not good. Go grab a couple of hundred random lifters and then work them out the same way with high volume and see how they respond after 6 months training then get back to us if you want to use lifters as an example.
Goosey
.
More often than not; a beginner needs a higher volume of work and the intensity of work needs to be lower.
Practice practice practice.
Intensity? Is subjective, results are tangible, some have a higher threshold of pain, nothing wrong with that, no good telling them to man-up it's just a fact of life.
Some really struggle whether or not they eat their beans.
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Practice practice practice.
Intensity? Is subjective, results are tangible, some have a higher threshold of pain, nothing wrong with that, no good telling them to man-up it's just a fact of life.
Some really struggle whether or not they eat their beans.
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Kyle Aaron
Active member
Markos did this (not a couple of hundred, but as many as the 20-30 you get in strength work studies which appear in peer-reviewed journals), apparently this was not concrete enough an example for some.
So I brought up an individual to make things nice and clear.
Again, the difference is mental. Some people are just hard and determined buggers. Tablesalt puts us all to shame. Some of us are rather less hard and determined. Most of us are a bit tougher when we've got someone pushing us - no yelling needed, just a firm word. "No, keep going."
I'm fairly sure Oliver could physically handle 20 rep breathing squats 3 times a week, if he were training with a coach, trainer, or training partner who said, "no, keep going." I'm not certain he'd show up to all the booked sessions. People bail on Markos all the time, I'm softer than him in my approach and even I've had people bail on me - clients, training partners, all sorts.
I remember back in PT school we had an ex-Soviet boxer, some of the guys were discussing what supplements they'd bought, I asked him if he and his mates had used supplements. "Only here," he said, tapping his forehead.
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Silverback,
As a fellow bean eater I'm sure you know the awesomeness of the beginner stage.
If we make their workouts nothing more than a squat, a press and a pull we can add 5kg to each lift (minus the press) for the first few weeks, before it pitters down to 2.5kg a session (should be around 140kg squats for sets and reps then) before, if we drop some squat volume, maybe 150-160kg. This might take 6ish months.
Wouldnt this be a better approach than if we did not eat our beans, did widowmakers (you know those ones where you take a 10 rep max and do 20 with them so that Jesus starts talking to you? well in this case we do another set straight after) with our squats AND 2x15 with our deadlift every session (or everyday in the magical world of kyle_aaron)?
And assume that one wasn't eating enough beans, isnt it possible that this latter workout could fry a fellow?
As a fellow bean eater I'm sure you know the awesomeness of the beginner stage.
If we make their workouts nothing more than a squat, a press and a pull we can add 5kg to each lift (minus the press) for the first few weeks, before it pitters down to 2.5kg a session (should be around 140kg squats for sets and reps then) before, if we drop some squat volume, maybe 150-160kg. This might take 6ish months.
Wouldnt this be a better approach than if we did not eat our beans, did widowmakers (you know those ones where you take a 10 rep max and do 20 with them so that Jesus starts talking to you? well in this case we do another set straight after) with our squats AND 2x15 with our deadlift every session (or everyday in the magical world of kyle_aaron)?
And assume that one wasn't eating enough beans, isnt it possible that this latter workout could fry a fellow?
What weight is he doing? I assume it's light? Yes, if that's the case, anyone can squat everyday.
Kyle, I dont take kindly to people trying to out broism me, especially if they cant even drink a can of mother.
From memory i missed two sessions in my first 6 months:
- Once when my exams got too much
- Once when I got hit by a car and couldnt walk properly.
I think my lifts are lame to tell you the truth, I wouldnt think anything of them unless I could squat over 250kg, but they seem to hold up to markos' beginner standards and your beginner standards, and I'm one person.
I'm all for hardwork, and I dont think the OP did enough hard work, but there is a point where people will hit a wall, and they will stop completely or start degressing, no matter how many beans you feed them.
Don't believe me? many a retard has tried to do Arnold's infamous x2 a day, x6 a week split, and whilst they lasted for the first few weeks, by the end of it they got raped.
I'm like the buddha, I take a middle path between the 'too little' and 'u got raped'.
Your not very familiar with Olympic lifters are you Chris?
How does 3 times a day, 6 days a week grab you?
Ask Fadi how often he squatted.
Randy Strossen talks about an incident in a training hall, at midnight before a World Championship. He witnessed a lifter training, and during his session he broke the C&J record.
Randy asked his coach why on earth he would do that. The coach looked puzzled, then simply replied
"To get strong"
Nobody, but nobody, trains as hard as Olympic Weightlifters, or as often.
Pyros Dimmas stated that he couldnt play basketball for 12 years, due to his training. It was probably worth the 3 Gold Medals though.