Theory i have

[0ni]

Look into gene expression Gooby
The body will adapt to whatever you throw at it, given enough time

 

[spartacus]

I am not saying that.

But unless the fibres of freaks are examined when they are young, and then compared to what they are later, all that is offered is a generalisation (as my earlier link suggested). can you point me to any study showing fibre types of athletes before and after?

I do feel that freaks can be produced out of seemingly ordinary youngsters. Not so much in sprinting, but in most other power sports. There maybe a whole lot of factors that explain success.

As for intellect, let us just have our own opinions and learn from debate and observation. Even science constantly changes its views on matters, and is nearly as warped as the humanities in terms of supposed truths.

 

[spartacus]

As I have read, most people are born with a 50-50 balance, and jury is out still on whether this ratio can be altered. I suspect it can, but have an open mind until proper science is recorded to evaluate generalisations about champion sprinters being born and so on.

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/anatomyandphysiology/a/MuscleFiberType.htm

It may be that some negroes are born with a higher ration, but I doubt they are born with 90% fast twitch fibres.

 

[Goosey]

Look into gene expression Gooby
The body will adapt to whatever you throw at it, given enough time

I know this.

i know the body adapts, fuck!

My question to you 0ni, is what is the fundamental difference between you and that girl squatting you posted?

 

[0ni]

I know this.

i know the body adapts, fuck!

My question to you 0ni, is what is the fundamental difference between you and that girl squatting you posted?

She tries harder and wants it more

 

[spartacus]

silverback, this is an old article, but hopefully worth reading.


http://www.si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1011594/1/index.htm


Here is another one.

http://www.rowperfect.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Training-fast-twitch-fibers.pdf

 

[Goosey]

She tries harder and wants it more

try harder

 

[spartacus]

Here is an opinion piece that highlights genetic advantages.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/11/what-makes-a-great-olympian-sometimes-it-s-genetics.html

Here is a details of a recent book that explores issues.

http://www.cbc.ca/books/2013/10/are-great-athletes-born-or-made.html

 

[Goosey]

silverback, this is an old article, but hopefully worth reading.


http://www.si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1011594/1/index.htm


Here is another one.

http://www.rowperfect.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Training-fast-twitch-fibers.pdf

I read, quite some time ago, an plausible explanation to african/american dominance in sport, this is a good example of a type of mini evolutionary event.
through the slave trade and the hardships and incredibly hard conditions imposed over years on the africans in America, lead to them evolve, weak dying, strong surviving, the gene pool changed.

 

[spartacus]

It is an interesting subject, which I hope to return to later in week. I agree that some obviously have a genetic advantage. I just think there are many variables and think some alteration may occur.

Here is one article discussing fibres or lay people rather than elite sportspeople.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1524-6175.2007.07846.x/pdf

"The fast-twitch fibers are better for sprinting,
and the slow-twitch for endurance exercise.
Thus most people have about 50% of slow-twitch
fibers in the gastrocnemius muscle, while sprinters
may have 25% and distance runners 70%.
7 The
extent to which training alters the relative proportion
of the different fiber types is controversial,
although the oxidative function of the fibers can
be dramatically changed
7 and the capillary density
can also increase.
8 There are studies which have
reported that endurance training can reduce the
proportion of type I fibers, although the degree of
change appears to be relatively small.
9 The best
estimate is that genetic factors account for 45% of
the variance, environmental factors for 40%, and
sampling and technical variance for the remaining
15%.
9 A study comparing sedentary blacks and
whites found that blacks had 33% of type 1 fibers,
while whites had 41%, and there were also marked
differences in the CK concentrations in the muscles
of the 2 groups, being more than 50% higher in the
black group. It has been suggested that this different
distribution may be part of the reason why so
many of the world’s top sprinters are black".
10

 

[Legion]

I read, quite some time ago, an plausible explanation to african/american dominance in sport, this is a good example of a type of mini evolutionary event.

I'll give a plausible explanation - drugs. There was a lot of drug testing at the 2000 Olymipcs and you had elite atheletes simply not turning up. The nail in the coffin for me was the mens 200m which was won by an Italian. All the olypmics in the five years prior all had heavy placing by the USA and in the olympics since have heavy placing by the USA. Yet at the 2000 games they were absent?

The differnce between number 1 in the world and number 50 isn't that big. Small advantages make a big difference to the finishing position.

We've seen a long list of USA world champions that have retired from athetics and since been found to be taking drugs. Why were they not being picked up? If they were in Australia they would have been subject to constant testing yet somehow these world record setting atheletes never test positive? Sounds like the system is broken or is designed to allow the breaches to occur because "its in the national interests".

There is currently a sprinter who is running way faster than everyone else. I don't buy the "he wants it more argument at that level". I personally don't believe the genetic argument but I used to concede it was possible. That was until his team mate started running similar times. That kind of blows the gentic argument out of the water.

 

[spartacus]

Kenteris, 2000 OG 200m winner, was Greek.

Also later banned for drugs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantinos_Kenteris
However, on the day prior to the Games, Kenteris and his training partner Ekaterini Thanou failed to attend a drug test. While they claimed to have been injured in a motorcycle accident - in a frantic attempt to return to the Olympic village for the test upon hearing the news in the media - an official Greek investigation would later find that the alleged accident had been staged. In the ensuing doping scandal, Kenteris and Thanou announced their withdrawal from the Games on August 18 after a hearing before the Disciplinary Commission of the IOC, for what they described to be "in the interests of the country."

 

[bozodos]

I read, quite some time ago, an plausible explanation to african/american dominance in sport, this is a good example of a type of mini evolutionary event.
through the slave trade and the hardships and incredibly hard conditions imposed over years on the africans in America, lead to them evolve, weak dying, strong surviving, the gene pool changed.

And porns lol.

Thing is though, why do whites dominate in PL, WL and Strongman?

 

[Legion]

Yup Greek. Could have sworn it was an Italian who won. They still have Kenteris as the gold medal winner on the Olympic site. I diverge from the thread a little but my point is that there appears to be systematic drug use in many countries and I believe it known to coaches and officials at certain levels.

 

[0ni]

Here we fucking go.

 

[Legion]

1) they openly take drugs
2) Its not a sport that the African Americans normally play. Not a popular sport in general compared to the big sports.

everyone on drugs levels the playing field and the fact there aren't as many in the sport means you have fewer rising to the top. That doesn't mean there aren't elite African Americans in weight lifting sports, just fewer as a %.

Why is Australia over represented in swimming.

Because in just about every council there is an olympic quality swimming facility and back in the 60,70,80 anyone who had asthma was pushed towards swimming. So you had a lot of little kids doing laps in olympic class facilities.

I grew up in a disadvantaged neighbourhood. Our local pool had a 50m Olympic pool, 25m heated lap pool, a toddler pool, a wading pool with fountain a diving pool with Olympic diving platforms and spring boards. You'd be lucky to find such facilities in many countries 40 years ago.

 

[Legion]

To be a champion takes genetics and hard work. A bit of luck doesn't hurt.

There is a big enough pool of people doing sports that if you don't have both you'll never be world champion.

Its like saying can anyone be a grandmaster in chess with practice? No - they are born that way.

Can you take an average person and make them better - of course. Thats just goal setting, planning and hard work.

 

[0ni]

Yet drugs act as some sort of genetic equaliser

 

[Legion]

Not a genetic equaliser. They are already very similar. Everyone on drugs rather than a particular group on drugs is the equaliser.

Although your ability to manange the drug program is also important. And the resources of that program eg access to drugs and scientists.

If you have two elite atheletes of equal ability and one is on a drug program you don't have to be a genius to know which one will win. It only need to be a small advantage for them to get consistant winning results.

I don't have an ethical issue with people taking drugs in sport. If a particular sport allows drug use then thats the sport.

The question was why don't you see African Americans winning in weightlifting sports. My answer is that you do but
- They aren't advantaged as a race over other races to the extent people like to think.
- There are fewer African Americans in lifting as a percentage and so you don't see as many of them.

 

[0ni]

Then you get guys like Usain Bolt that blow that hypothesis out the water