struggle to eat enough

[Bazza20]

Yeah it's not true 100% of the time. As I said the timing and the types of food and the rest of your diet is important. You cook very healthy, I've looked all over it lol. You eat the right types of fats, the one's high in monounsaturates which the body likes to use as fuel and can readily use up for energy. You're also not eating more than 4,000kcal a day lol. The time you eat your carbs is probably very good as well. Last thing at night after dinner or at the weekends? I am making assumptions here so sorry if I am wrong

The right way to do things would to focus on the meat first as well as the starches. Stew would work very well for this, I'd avoid most Italian food unless it was made with real olive oil personally. Then at night is the right time to binge on the carbs or sugars if you want to.

The bad way would to get up, drink a glass of orange juice, have a massive bowl of porridge and syrup on top and then some eggs and bacon on the side lol. As soon as insulin is spiked and remains spiked with the combination of sugars and starches the body will not burn any fat at all! Then through the day you're eating your fats, the body won't use them for energy so will just store them- what else would it do with them? Remove the fats from the breakfast and have a light lunch and then you'd be much better off. By dinner rolling around insulin will be at a sensible level again and you can get away with some more shenanigans

This is why I am asking for the full diet plan, just to check everything is fine and there isn't fat being gained unnecessarily

Your focusing on what happens with regards to fat burning at that instant. It's like doing low intensity exercise to have a higher percentage of fat being used as fuel. Its what happens on overage over the 24 hours that matters.

I remember when first started talking about John Beardi talked about keeping carbs are fat apart. it's now been shown to be a pretty flimsy theory at best.

The nutrient timing aspect of it is going to make fuck all difference compared to what you eat on average each, day, week, month.

 

[0ni]

Your focusing on what happens with regards to fat burning at that instant. It's like doing low intensity exercise to have a higher percentage of fat being used as fuel. Its what happens on overage over the 24 hours that matters.

I remember when first started talking about John Beardi talked about keeping carbs are fat apart. it's now been shown to be a pretty flimsy theory at best.

The nutrient timing aspect of it is going to make fuck all difference compared to what you eat on average each, day, week, month.

when do you burn the most fat (use up the most energy)
at night? or during the day? when you're training?
if you do not wish to get fatter, it makes little sense to spike insulin which will completely stop lipolysis right before you're about to burn the most fat
eating some oats will keep insulin elevated for at least 8 hours

save them for when you need them- when you're most sensitive to insulin and have already burned off the most fuel. including fats at the same time just adds insult in injury

 

[Bazza20]

when do you burn the most fat (use up the most energy)
at night? or during the day? when you're training?
if you do not wish to get fatter, it makes little sense to spike insulin which will completely stop lipolysis right before you're about to burn the most fat
eating some oats will keep insulin elevated for at least 8 hours

save them for when you need them- when you're most sensitive to insulin and have already burned off the most fuel. including fats at the same time just adds insult in injury

It's the averages over the 24 hours that matters not the instant.

Calories burned over the day and calories taken in over the day that matters. How you fuck around with when you eat or when you exercise matters little.

If fucking around with nutrient timing makes you feel better go for it.

 

[Goosey]

Looking at this throughout the week rather than hourly or daily will drive you less nuts.

 

[chocchillimango]

It's the averages over the 24 hours that matters not the instant.

Calories burned over the day and calories taken in over the day that matters. How you fuck around with when you eat or when you exercise matters little.

If fucking around with nutrient timing makes you feel better go for it.

minus the expletives, but yes, it matters not when you eat various nutrients, for the most part.

 

[d1mitch]

ok here you go, this was yesterday - keep in mind im am a rep so i spend alot of my time driving around without access to a microwave or fridge or any other cooking appliance.

normally i am rooted by dinner time and have no appetite at all so eating during the day seems to make me feel better

 

[0ni]

It's the averages over the 24 hours that matters not the instant.

Calories burned over the day and calories taken in over the day that matters. How you fuck around with when you eat or when you exercise matters little.

If fucking around with nutrient timing makes you feel better go for it.

Then why do multiple medical studies show that simply moving carbohydrates to the evening cause significant weight loss?

 

[0ni]

ok here you go, this was yesterday - keep in mind im am a rep so i spend alot of my time driving around without access to a microwave or fridge or any other cooking appliance.

normally i am rooted by dinner time and have no appetite at all so eating during the day seems to make me feel better

This is good
You're low on omega3's though. Supplement with fish oil with your fattiest meal of the day. At least 2g total EPA/DHA but ideally 5g
The macadamia oil is good- mostly monounsaturates which is ideal
The margarine- try to go for butter it tastes nicer and is better for you

 

[Bazza20]

Then why do multiple medical studies show that simply moving carbohydrates to the evening cause significant weight loss?

And I've seen plenty that say it made no difference. I'm sure alan aragon did an article on it and he is more educated and well read on the topic than me. I'll try and find it.

The fitness industry is funny. The fads just go around and around.

Not long ago it was carbs after 3pm cause fat gain. Now its carbs in the morning cause fat gain. Lol. What's going to be next?

 

[Goosey]

Interesting point Bazza.

Suppose, we all respond differently, depending on our cultural background and genetics.


I read this, this morning...
There is only one way to build a wolf; because, it if does not look like a wolf, it cannot perform the functions of a wolf.”

Which is true up to a certain point, but which can be clearly understood only if you define just what the functions of a wolf actually are.

The skull and teeth of a Tasmanian Devil are almost identical to those of a wolf; yet the Tasmanian Devil not only is not a canine but is not even a usual mammal, is a marsupial. While the Platypus, another mammal, lays eggs in order to reproduce.

All the same but function differently due to their environment.

This is why it's impossible for the fitness industry to have a one fits all ?

 

[Shrek]

Of course they will not be the same or perform the same, one's a canine, one's a marsupial, but we are all humans.

 

[0ni]

Please do find it, I'd be very interested to read that as I am pretty well read and missed it.
I agree that calories are the 99% as I have said before. But insulin really will stop all lipolysis. Completely. It's the most anabolic hormone in the body. So if you have high insulin and you eat fats then what is the body going to do with them? All it can do is store them. It will not do anything else with them but store them. So just go easy on them when insulin is high.

I don't have all my books with me atm but this is what I can remember from the top of my head:
Weight loss is greater with consumption of large morn... [J Nutr. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI
Weight Loss is Greater with Consumption of Large Morning Meals and Fat-Free Mass Is Preserved with Large Evening Meals in Women on a Controlled Weight Reduction Regimen
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/570650_2
Some aspects of the chronobiology of nutrition: more ... [J Nutr. 1989] - PubMed - NCBI
Chronobiological aspects of weight loss in ob... [Chronobiol Int. 1987] - PubMed - NCBI
Carbs at night make you lean! So does a big breakfast? | Real Strength
Greater weight loss and hormonal cha... [Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
How to increase serotonin in the human brain without drugs

As you can see if fat loss is the goal it makes sense to eat a large breakfast. Big dinner preserves muscle mass as well. Shifting carbs to night gave better body composition.

 

[Bazza20]

Interesting point Bazza.

Suppose, we all respond differently, depending on our cultural background and genetics.


I read this, this morning...
There is only one way to build a wolf; because, it if does not look like a wolf, it cannot perform the functions of a wolf.”

Which is true up to a certain point, but which can be clearly understood only if you define just what the functions of a wolf actually are.

The skull and teeth of a Tasmanian Devil are almost identical to those of a wolf; yet the Tasmanian Devil not only is not a canine but is not even a usual mammal, is a marsupial. While the Platypus, another mammal, lays eggs in order to reproduce.

All the same but function differently due to their environment.

This is why it's impossible for the fitness industry to have a one fits all ?

My thoughts are most fads do work in a way but not for the reasons people usually think.

Low carbs works because people cut out carbs which limits overall calories.

Low fat for the same reasons but cutting out fat.

High protein. Because you are limiting carbs and fats. Protein is filling and therefore reducing overall calories.

Paleo cuts out a lot of foods, limiting overall calories

Clean bodybuilder diet is lower calories because most foods considered clean are less calorie dense.

No carbs after 3 reduces calories because you limit when you eat carbs.

Same with no carbs in the morning

Intermittent fasting. Cutting out meals which limits how many calories you can take in.

Calorie counting makes you accountable for what you are actually taking in.

All the fads are basically just tricks to try and limit the overall calories you eat and not really working for the reasons they are promoted.

 

[0ni]

All I am saying bazza is that raising your insulin and eating a load of fat is a bad idea
your body will not do anything but store it. this isn't a fad diet, I don't know why you keep going on about it lol it's just logic. Don't eat a load of carbs and then a load of fat it's as simple as that

You want some pizza once a week then it's fine obviously, just don't make a habit of it

 

[Bazza20]

Please do find it, I'd be very interested to read that as I am pretty well read and missed it.
I agree that calories are the 99% as I have said before. But insulin really will stop all lipolysis. Completely. It's the most anabolic hormone in the body. So if you have high insulin and you eat fats then what is the body going to do with them? All it can do is store them. It will not do anything else with them but store them. So just go easy on them when insulin is high.

I don't have all my books with me atm but this is what I can remember from the top of my head:
Weight loss is greater with consumption of large morn... [J Nutr. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI
Weight Loss is Greater with Consumption of Large Morning Meals and Fat-Free Mass Is Preserved with Large Evening Meals in Women on a Controlled Weight Reduction Regimen
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/570650_2
Some aspects of the chronobiology of nutrition: more ... [J Nutr. 1989] - PubMed - NCBI
Chronobiological aspects of weight loss in ob... [Chronobiol Int. 1987] - PubMed - NCBI
Carbs at night make you lean! So does a big breakfast? | Real Strength
Greater weight loss and hormonal cha... [Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
How to increase serotonin in the human brain without drugs

As you can see if fat loss is the goal it makes sense to eat a large breakfast. Big dinner preserves muscle mass as well. Shifting carbs to night gave better body composition.

Again all you are thinking about is what happens at the instant you eat. It doesn't matter, the body is storing and breaking down fats to varying degrees throughout the day.

If you are eating below maintenance you are not always breaking down body fat for energy throughout the day. Every time you eat you store some as fat then break some down between meals but the overall average is you are losing fat if you eat below maintenance.

Bottom line who cares if you store fat at the instance you eat. Its what happens over the whole day that matters. Infact storing and breaking down fat is more inefficient than just utilizing fat as you eat it. So it even makes a case that it would mean you can eat more calories and lose fat.

I have alan aragons book and I'm wondering if its in that I'll have a look.

 

[0ni]

no bazza because if insulin is high and you require energy the body will simply use glucose for energy instead of fat

 

[spartacus]

Fats provide over 50% of the Calories expended during moderate exercise (less than 50% VO2 max.) even when adequate carbohydrates (glycogen) are available. As the level of exercise increases towards 100% VO2 max., the proportion of the total energy expenditures covered by fat metabolism diminishes. And in maximum performance events, where metabolism becomes anaerobic (greater than 100% VO2 max.), fat metabolism ceases and only carbohydrates are useful to the muscle cell as an energy source. Although there has been speculation that using fats in a dietary program both during training and as supplements during competitive events might improve athletic performance, the only hard evidence to date suggests that it may help endurance (performing at < 50%VO2 max) athletes involved in long events while there has been no evidence of a benefit at higher performance levels ie 90 to 100% VO2max.

CYCLING PERFORMANCE TIPS -

Point I support is that we do use fat for normal energy use throughout day.

 

[jzpowahz]

Oni: did you just finish reading CBL by any chance?

Links to multiple studies showing the benefits of carb consumption at night in trained lean individuals please?

This is a very good read re insulin and it "stopping" lipolysis. http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319 "dimmer switch not an on/off switch"

 

[Goosey]

My thoughts are most fads do work in a way but not for the reasons people usually think.

Low carbs works because people cut out carbs which limits overall calories.

Low fat for the same reasons but cutting out fat.

High protein. Because you are limiting carbs and fats. Protein is filling and therefore reducing overall calories.

Paleo cuts out a lot of foods, limiting overall calories

Clean bodybuilder diet is lower calories because most foods considered clean are less calorie dense.

No carbs after 3 reduces calories because you limit when you eat carbs.

Same with no carbs in the morning

Intermittent fasting. Cutting out meals which limits how many calories you can take in.

Calorie counting makes you accountable for what you are actually taking in.

All the fads are basically just tricks to try and limit the overall calories you eat and not really working for the reasons they are promoted.

Yeah

 

[0ni]

Fats provide over 50% of the Calories expended during moderate exercise (less than 50% VO2 max.) even when adequate carbohydrates (glycogen) are available. As the level of exercise increases towards 100% VO2 max., the proportion of the total energy expenditures covered by fat metabolism diminishes. And in maximum performance events, where metabolism becomes anaerobic (greater than 100% VO2 max.), fat metabolism ceases and only carbohydrates are useful to the muscle cell as an energy source. Although there has been speculation that using fats in a dietary program both during training and as supplements during competitive events might improve athletic performance, the only hard evidence to date suggests that it may help endurance (performing at < 50%VO2 max) athletes involved in long events while there has been no evidence of a benefit at higher performance levels ie 90 to 100% VO2max.

CYCLING PERFORMANCE TIPS -

Point I support is that we do use fat for normal energy use throughout day.

Oni: did you just finish reading CBL by any chance?

Links to multiple studies showing the benefits of carb consumption at night in trained lean individuals please?

This is a very good read re insulin and it "stopping" lipolysis. http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319 "dimmer switch not an on/off switch"

Yep it's a dimmer switch
Kiefer is completely wrong about a lot of things, I have made this clear before I am not a fan of kiefer. But what I am saying is don't spike your insulin then eat a load of fats. I don't know why I need to keep typing this over and over. The body will still store all those fats whether you like it or not. Lipolysis will be greatly stunted especially if you eat my example of porridge and maple syrup with orange juice. A typical carb backloading post workout meal would be 500g of sugar and this is again bad for these reasons. All I am saying is to go easy on combining the carbs and the fats not that you should totally avoid it. You guys are very all-or-nothing

Trained individuals has nothing to do with it. Being trained will only effect metabolic rate.