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Strength & Conditioning for footballers

Nicolas said:
It's actually a combination of both.
Click to expand...


This will be fun, please elucidate.

Second thoughts don't bother, I'm sick of trying to have conversations with young kids like you that think they know everything, I certainly don't know everything, but niether does everyone else.

I honestly don't know why I persist, what I do know is people like markos and I have done just a few workouts over a few years to know that biulding strength is not rocket surgery or brain science it's just damn hard work done safely and efficiantly...and we both also have respect for our elders, whom I personally learnt more from than from any young wise arse kunt who thinks he's an expert because he can balance on a swiss ball, yes you can squat x kg's, bench this, dead-lift that, come and talk to me when your fifty, hell I'll be dead, but what I do know is; the only way they'll take the bar out of my hands is when they have to pry them out of my cold dead ones.

Kicking you in the nuts might not bring you to reason, but it might make you think twice, maybe not, but it would sure make me feel a whole lot better.

:~)
 
Silverback said:
This will be fun, please elucidate.

Second thoughts don't bother, I'm sick of trying to have conversations with young kids like you that think they know everything, I certainly don't know everything, but niether does everyone else.

I honestly don't know why I persist, what I do know is people like markos and I have done just a few workouts over a few years to know that biulding strength is not rocket surgery or brain science it's just damn hard work done safely and efficiantly...and we both also have respect for our elders, whom I personally learnt more from than from any young wise arse kunt who thinks he's an expert because he can balance on a swiss ball, yes you can squat x kg's, bench this, dead-lift that, come and talk to me when your fifty, hell I'll be dead, but what I do know is; the only way they'll take the bar out of my hands is when they have to pry them out of my cold dead ones.

Kicking you in the nuts might not bring you to reason, but it might make you think twice, maybe not, but it would sure make me feel a whole lot better.

:~)
Click to expand...

I was going to elaborate on this , but , you've just demonstrated a perfect reason why I shouldn't.

I simply wrote a one line response to you, and in an ironic manner, you attempt to claim my "youth" as a problem ... when in reality, your clear immaturity is the reason this discussion has now turned into a personal attack-fest.

In short, if you feel that it is an art, and only an art .... you are highly ignorant to the real world, and that which underpins everything we know, and the manner in which we behave.

You, of course, will disagree. Though, the attitude of your response to my previous post just demonstrates how little I should actually pay attention to your remarks.
 
Silverback said:
and we both also have respect for our elders, whom I personally learnt more from than from any young wise arse kunt who thinks he's an expert because he can balance on a swiss ball
Click to expand...

That is a gross stereotype / generalisation of young people.

I am actually quite amazed at how defensive you've become over a one-line response.

Are you feeling threatened or belittled? .... because you're behaving like a child.

If lifting was only an art, then why do we constantly hear the following questions?:-
* "How deep should you squat?"
* "What is the safest way to squat?"
* "How do I hit "XX" muscle more using the squat?"
* "What is the best posture to assume during "XX" exericse?"
* "When, what and how should I eat to best support my training?"
* "Do supplements work?, Ifso, which ones, and what do they do?"
* "I want to train for optimal power, how do I do this?"
* "I want to optimise my strength for scrummaging in Rugby, what exercises will best assist this?"
* "I feel sore, should I still train?. How might this soreness influence my training?"

If lifting was as simple as "you grab this, and move it like this" , then it would only be an art. If we all trained the same, to achieve the same outcome, then it would be loosely classified as an art. However, there are mental / psychological factors - (a science), there are biomechanical factors - (a science), and there are physiological factors - (a science); which all govern how we train, how we move, how we perform, how we think, how we feel, and overall; how we behave as humans.

But, it's just an art, right?.

Get a clue mate.
 
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This has gone off track. Nicholas, I have had a little success training young lifters, its no big deal, but to answer your questions.

If lifting was only an art, then why do we constantly hear the following questions?:-
* "How deep should you squat?".....only became a problem when PT's hit the industry
* "What is the safest way to squat?".....the correct way, the one that was taught before PT's
* "How do I hit "XX" muscle more using the squat?"......STFU and squat
* "What is the best posture to assume during "XX" exericse?".....really, you get asked this?
* "When, what and how should I eat to best support my training?"....eat what nature provides, especially when your hungry
* "Do supplements work?, Ifso, which ones, and what do they do?".......save your money
* "I want to train for optimal power, how do I do this?"....lift heavy things fast
* "I want to optimise my strength for scrummaging in Rugby, what exercises will best assist this?"....as always, squat/clean/press/deadlift
* "I feel sore, should I still train?. How might this soreness influence my training?"...HTFU
 
No more crap, its my thread, Nicholas, feel free to start a science thread and I'll come looksy, this one is science free from a dying breed.
 
* "How deep should you squat?".....only became a problem when PT's hit the industry
Click to expand...

Actually this came about due to a poor scientific study... damn it thats one against science. David the scientist walks away in shame.

But anyways science is just a standardised method of testing something and reporting the results. You use science in your training when you tried out UDL's and saw how it improved the lifters deadlift over a 12 week period(guess). If the DL improved then UDL's are good if it didn't then UDL's are bad. That is the basis of science. And I think the basis of Nicolas' argument.

EDIT: You wrote your last post as I was writing this so I did not get to see it. No more science talk.
 
I also have another client who is training for Jui Jitsu.

Oddly enough, he is training at a studio a friend runs, he didnt know we were friends, but started at PTC because of Max's results. He went to the same school but is a couple of years older.

He did extremely well for his first session, he squatted

100kg x 10
80kg x 15
60kg x 20
40kg x 40

He has perfect squat technique, great range of motion. Because he is training for a sport, he also has lots of heart.
 
Very negligent of me to not mention what athletes Max is now training.

Daryl - powerlifting
Jesse - basketball
Joel - basketball
Blake - MMA
Michael - football
Connor - soccer

He has quite the posse lol
 
I'm goin to enjoy this project. I may not express it well mate...I think your a real asset to the board, mainly to the sporting community
Posted via Mobile Device
 
PTC said:
This has gone off track. Nicholas, I have had a little success training young lifters, its no big deal, but to answer your questions.
Click to expand...

You do realise I didn't need those questions answered? - They were stated to illustrate a point you quite clearly missed.

The question was raised by somebody else regarding the whole "science versus art" debate ... and the answer is quite simple - both are important.
 
dave said:
Actually this came about due to a poor scientific study... damn it thats one against science. David the scientist walks away in shame.

But anyways science is just a standardised method of testing something and reporting the results. You use science in your training when you tried out UDL's and saw how it improved the lifters deadlift over a 12 week period(guess). If the DL improved then UDL's are good if it didn't then UDL's are bad. That is the basis of science. And I think the basis of Nicolas' argument.

EDIT: You wrote your last post as I was writing this so I did not get to see it. No more science talk.
Click to expand...

Yes , thank you Dave! [hallelulah] .... at least you understand what I thought I had conveyed in English.

Anyway , continue your thread PTC.
 
99% of people can achieve what they want to achieve with hard work and no science. nothing worthwhile can be achieved with science and no hard work.

in the lab science makes a whole lot of sense. in the gym it serves to distract people with finding the easy way out. everything we need to know was known 50 years ago.

edit: oh hai... havent been round these parts in a while
 
Last edited:
dr00 said:
everything we need to know was known 50 years ago.
Click to expand...

Um, no, that is ridiculous.

And, it greatly depends which population (clinical, athletic) you're referring too. Since no one has defined which they're discussing in this thread; you can't make such a sweeping statement and have it viewed credibly.

Sure, if you're lifting for basic health, or general mass gain / strength gain - most of what you might know now, or in the "last 50 years" might be sufficient - but anything more targetted, or specific certainly requires more knowledge which can't be developed by basic "lifters intuition" which many of you assume is gospel.
 
Nicholas, I truly am a student of all things strength.

Please, please start a thread demonstrating results you have achieved with science in the field of strength that may not have been possible otherwise, I am not being a smart ass, I live to learn.

Oh, and welcome back droo, you lifting again?
 
PTC said:
Oh, and welcome back droo, you lifting again?
Click to expand...

yeah, got into law school at the beginning of the year so ive been obsessing over that to the detriment of everything else ever since. all reading and no lifting makes homer something something... so 3 plate 20 reps here i come.
 
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