[Rugby] Rugby League & Rugby Union discussions.

[Rugby88]

All Black team for the weekend V Ireland - Sonny Bill to the bench - not really surprised I think its due to respect to give nonu and smith starts - I would say Sonny Bill will play a full 2nd half though with prob Nonu coming off.

Hika Elliot keeps his place at hooker - he had a great game last weekend so good job to him for keeping his starting spot this weekend!!

Also Cory Jane back in the side - good to see!



Starting XV

1. Tony Woodcock (72)
2. Hikawera Elliot (1)
3. Owen Franks (20)
4. Brad Thorn (49)
5. Tom Donnelly (14)
6. Jerome Kaino (36)
7. Richie McCaw – captain (92)
8. Kieran Read (28)
9. Andy Ellis (16)
10. Daniel Carter (77)
11. Hosea Gear (4)
12. Ma’a Nonu (54)
13. Conrad Smith (43)
14. Cory Jane (21)
15. Mils Muliaina (92)

Reserves

16. Andrew Hore (48)
17. John Afoa (28)
18. Anthony Boric (18)
19. Liam Messam (6)
20. Alby Mathewson (3)
21. Stephen Donald (21)
22. Sonny Bill Williams (2)

 

[Shrek]

SBW might not get much game time from the bench. Should've just bitten the bullett and stuck with him, he'll only get better playing game time.

 

[PRISON_MIKE]

It was the Wallabies - not Aus A (they are different teams -not sure if they even have A anymore) - Australia A are not touring with the Wallabies...

If there "2nd string" players are not upto playing in the 1st 15 then why are they there? - Munster beat the Wallabies at the end of the day....whatever team you field should be able to play 1st 15 rugby no matter what or you should not be selected for the Wallabies....

Yes some 1st 15 players were not there but it was still the Wallabies...

It was the Aus 2nd XV (Aus A) same thing.

2nd XV play all the midweek tour matches and the 1st XV play the tests, pretty straight forward if u ask me.

 

[Rugby88]

It was the Aus 2nd XV (Aus A) same thing.

2nd XV play all the midweek tour matches and the 1st XV play the tests, pretty straight forward if u ask me.

Sorry man - dont think you get it - Aus A are a team in themself they have nothing to do with the Wallabies.

If 2nd 15 players can not play 1st 15 then they should not have them there...you should have at least 35-40 players that can be in the 1st 22 and play top class international rugby and win....

Look at New Zealand Moari the other week...they beat England.

If the Wallabies cant take 35-40 players on tour that all can play 1st 15/22 rugby then whats the point? - have the All Blacks taken players on tour with them that can not make the 1st 15? No. Its not that the Wallabies want to play a "2nd 15" on mid week games its that they have to...they have no depth to have players that can beat a top club side...its as simple as that.

We need the National rugby comp back to get some depth within the higher teams - next year I could be playing only 3 levels down from Wallaby level....wtf is up with that... what they need is:

1.Club Level

2.National Comp level (such as Itm cup in NZ or Currie cup in SA) (professional nation wide comp - only small step down from Super Rugby)

3.Super rugby

4.Wallabies

 

[Rugby88]

SBW might not get much game time from the bench. Should've just bitten the bullett and stuck with him, he'll only get better playing game time.

Yea mate - trying to make sense of it because they have seen plenty of what Nonu/Smith can do - to be honest I think its more out of respect for nonu/smith - or maybe they just think Ireland are there biggest comp this tour...sure he will be back V Wales the week after!

 

[PRISON_MIKE]

Sorry man - dont think you get it - Aus A are a team in themself they have nothing to do with the Wallabies.

If 2nd 15 players can not play 1st 15 then they should not have them there...you should have at least 35-40 players that can be in the 1st 22 and play top class international rugby and win....

Look at New Zealand Moari the other week...they beat England.

If the Wallabies cant take 35-40 players on tour that all can play 1st 15/22 rugby then whats the point? - have the All Blacks taken players on tour with them that can not make the 1st 15? No. Its not that the Wallabies want to play a "2nd 15" on mid week games its that they have to...they have no depth to have players that can beat a top club side...its as simple as that.

We need the National rugby comp back to get some depth within the higher teams - next year I could be playing only 3 levels down from Wallaby level....wtf is up with that... what they need is:

1.Club Level

2.National Comp level (such as Itm cup in NZ or Currie cup in SA) (professional nation wide comp - only small step down from Super Rugby)

3.Super rugby

4.Wallabies

What's the point? Experience. Do u expect them to turn into world class players playing only super rugby? Of course they won't. They need more experience, even if its only tour matches or benching for some tests.

 

[Rugby88]

What's the point? Experience. Do u expect them to turn into world class players playing only super rugby? Of course they won't. They need more experience, even if its only tour matches or benching for some tests.

But theres only so many players you can have in a squad and only so many players who can play - i.e 35-40 and this 35-40 generally needs to be the same 35-40 so a team can develop - you cant be rotating 100 players through the Wallaby side and expecting them to develop and grow as a side.

The fact of the matter is, is that there isnt 100 players that could even make the wallabies there really isnt 35-40 - but they need to have that many to make up a squad...

The national comp wouldnt be a direct develop for the Wallabies but a develop for players to be future Wallabies to give them the experience at a more high class rugby than just club but also giving them the chance to play in a higher class if they were not quite ready to play Super rugby.....

This is what South Africa and New Zealand have done with the Currie Cup and the Itm Cup - South Africa this tour has had 20 1st 22 players out and have managed to put a side together that will prob go on to have a winning tour - think if 20 Wallabies players were out of the 40 man squad? could you even name who may even have a chance to be called into the squad.....no....

People who say the national comp wouldnt do anything does not get how different Club rugby is to Super rugby and then to Wallabies level....there NEEDS to be a PROFESSIONAL national comp put in place to see talent and develop it for the next generation of Wallabies....

 

[Martigan]

there NEEDS to be a PROFESSIONAL national comp put in place to see talent and develop it for the next generation of Wallabies....

Where are you going to get the juniors from ?

 

[Rugby88]

Where are you going to get the juniors from ?

Schools, junior clubs - just as normal.

You would have it like so:

Junior/school boy
then
club/senior (normally non-paid)
then
National level (best teams/players from club level) (paid rugby)
then
Super rugby (best players from national level) (paid)
then
Wallaby (best players from super rugby) (paid)


A national comp wouldnt have anything to do with junior/school boy rugby as such - if anything it would give them a great chance to show off there skills at a national level and increase there chances of a Super rugby contract.

A national comp also widens the player pool in Australia - with many good teams comming from VIC/SA/WA - but they are unable to develop there teams or players because they never get a taste of good rugby - because there is no National comp.

Honestly New Zealand, South Africa, England all do this and there player depth is great - why doesnt Australia do it to.

I dont even support the Wallabies but I support the growth and develop of rugby within Australia and me and ALOT of other ppl see that there is a need for a professional comp between CLUB RUGBY and SUPER RUGBY.

For the NSW/QLD guys - watch club rugby on ABC at 3pm next year and tell me if its the same as Super Rugby.

Any ACT guys here - come down and watch 1st grade rugby and tell me if its the same as Super Rugby.

 

[Martigan]

I understand the game gets played at private schools and university but where are the junior competitions played ? The ACT ?

League starts at under 7's some players as young as four, there are under 7's teams in every town in NSW and QLD.

 

[Rugby88]

Union starts at around u'7 - there are 100/1000's of junior clubs around Australia - sometimes senior clubs have junior teams or sometimes the junior teams are feeder teams for senior clubs - depending on area.

School teams also play club teams (within same comp) within the ACT - I think in NSW there is just a school comp and a club comp - not sure about QLD (think its much the same set up as NSW)

 

[Rugby88]

Junior level union is pretty strong - its just when you get past juniors u either go straight into Super Rugby or Club rugby - thats to much of a difference in regards to development.

There are prob 5-6 players I know of that are GREAT club players but just not there with Super Rugby (because of lack of develop) and because there is nothing inbetween to develop them/let them show there skills off at a national level they will never make Super rugby level - even though they could with just abit more development or the chance to show what they have got.

Example:

I have mentioned a guy called Jack Lam earlier in this thread - I went to school with him, great school boy rugby player, great club player - but not given the chance to step upto super rugby because there was nowhere to show his skills off at a higher level (national level) - moved to New Zealand and was picked up by an Itm cup team (national level comp in NZ) - he had a crazy good season with them and has now been selecled into the Hurricanes Super Rugby team to play next year.

This guy had/has the skills to go onto play Super rugby and international rugby - but Australia has missed out on this because there is no pool of players where these nearly super rugby players can play.

Hope this makes sense guys - not trying to be a pain in the ass! lol - just trying to show why the Wallabies are not doing very well the last few years.

 

[Martigan]

What comp will you be playing in Joel and how many teams play in the comp ?

I like to follow my sport at a local level, One thing i have noticed in league over the last 10 years is the level of professionalism at the lower levels and the fitness and strength of players now and that seems to be a flow on effect from what they are doing at higher levels.

 

[Rugby88]

Hopefully fingers crossed I will play 1st grade in the ACT rugby union comp - there are 6 1st grade teams and there are 4 divs within senior rugby in the ACT.

 

[dave]

A national comp also widens the player pool in Australia - with many good teams comming from VIC/SA/WA - but they are unable to develop there teams or players because they never get a taste of good rugby - because there is no National comp.

Vic rugby's state level is the highest (besides the rebels now) you can play and it is the lowest level you can play too for over 18's. There are a few divisions but it is a bit of a joke development wise. Teams are country towns, some suburbs and uni teams so really you have to move elsewhere to play higher division and then from there all you have above you is moving to NSW (not a huge step up) or playing super rugby (a huge step up). So a national level comp would be a great idea because otherwise most players will either go nowhere or to league and a few may make super rugby.

 

[Shrek]

I see the Waballies beat Italy, but only scored 2 tries. to me this means they struggled.
WTF is going on? It looked like the turned to it all around recently with wins on S.A in S.A at altitude then a good win over the All Blacks, but recent loses to England, Munster (albeit Aust A) and a poor showing against Italy means they have not turned the tables at all.
Deans will be under pressure again.

 

[walt]

NZ is the only team standing out at the moment. SA lost to Scotland. SA is out of world cup for sure.

 

[Rugby88]

All Blacks 38 Ireland 18 - Tough tough game - All Blacks showed how to finish in a really tough game!

SA 17 Scotland 21

Aus 32 Italy 14

Have only watched the All Blacks game - prob the only game worth watching this weekend - again All Blacks were spot on - honestly I was worried at one point Ireland would win - but All Blacks just seemed to finish them off - was alot closer than the score-line was.... Great game by Ireland!

Wallabies again poor effort from the looks of things - watched abit of the game but got bored really - to score only 2 tries V Italy is poor.

Shrek I dont think its Deans or the coaching staff - I think its just the players not geling as a team + them (each player) simply not good enough to compete with top teams (when top teams are playing at 90-100%)

 

[Shrek]

I don't think it's Deans either but you know how it works when the team performs poorly, the coaches ability comes under scrutiny.

 

[Rugby88]

I don't think it's Deans either but you know how it works when the team performs poorly, the coaches ability comes under scrutiny.

Oh yea for sure mate - id be very surprised if hes there next year...something has to change and coach is normally 1st thing to go...

I really dont like the Wallabies but I hope they find some new talent over the Super rugby season to set themself up for a good international/world cup run...coz atm its the All Blacks and only the All Blacks and as much as thats great you dont wanna win a world cup just coz all the other teams are at 50%.

I know All Blacks are resting alot of there 1st 15 players for the 1st few games of Super Rugby - hope Wallabies dont do the same coz they need as much game time as possible.