In tested competition I would be willing to bet much less are doing it than previously.
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Robert Wilkes Capo
In tested competition I would be willing to bet much less are doing it than previously.
spartacus
Well-known member
rugby, to some extent your view is correct.
As long as humans continue to innovate, some will find new ways to cheat before testers can find tests or methods to detect them.
But, the facts do speak for themselves. Just look at all the superstars now being caught by a number of strategies. No one is safe now.
2013 saw Tyson Gay, 2nd fast 100m time ever, caught. And, importantly, rather than make excuses or deny, he even admitted he trusted the wrong advice. When superstars pay big money for advice, and that advice is wrong, then all have much more to think about.
Sport may never be entirely clean, but the game between cheaters and testers has closed significantly.
However, an important obstacle to comprehensive testing is financial resources. That is why some sports do testing much better than others.
As long as humans continue to innovate, some will find new ways to cheat before testers can find tests or methods to detect them.
But, the facts do speak for themselves. Just look at all the superstars now being caught by a number of strategies. No one is safe now.
2013 saw Tyson Gay, 2nd fast 100m time ever, caught. And, importantly, rather than make excuses or deny, he even admitted he trusted the wrong advice. When superstars pay big money for advice, and that advice is wrong, then all have much more to think about.
Sport may never be entirely clean, but the game between cheaters and testers has closed significantly.
However, an important obstacle to comprehensive testing is financial resources. That is why some sports do testing much better than others.
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jj80
Member
I gotta sympathise with athletes who face the choice of retiring from their sport (as they're no longer competitive) and doping to remain competitive. It seems to become a 'means justify the end' argument which I think needs to be removed - at least for TESTED organisations.
There was an interesting post on Mike T's boards about doping, someone said that doping was just a mini game within the game (a familiar argument/sentiment). Mike T wrote a good response, I'll quote part of it -
' Some may see passing the test as part of a game, but that has no bearing on whether it's right or wrong. In my opinion, the point of a philosophical code is to provide people with a gauge to measure morality -- a "moral compass" if you will. Simply stating that winning is the objective and life is composed of games does not provide any moral direction. And an "ends justifies the means" mentality is Machiavellian philosophy -- which I personally reject as well. I'm sure that's not really an education for a philosophy major, but I'll state my case anyway!
"I realise I'm just a bystander, I dont compete in powerlifting or anything, but it's an interesting issue and drug use has obviously permeated popular culture...
spartacus
Well-known member
nice post, can you add link, may use it.
If realist (Machiavellians) perspectives prevailed, nothing better will ever be achieved. Since 1988, things have indeed improved in terms of drugs in sport.
As for drugs in society, that is another story. I would think most Aust powerlifters who take illegal PEDs are relative gentlemen and focused merely on lifting more weight. in contrast, there are thugs cruising bars with attitudes that violence will nearly always prevail to resolve or even provoke a tense situation.
This is where Wilks falls down big time. He cannot admit that most people in non-PA feds are decent people, not to mention the reality that all people deserve a second chance. He can also not admit that there are also non-drug issues which help explain why there are many non-PA members.
Sad thing is the ASC does not appear interested on the basis it has no regulatory role.
If realist (Machiavellians) perspectives prevailed, nothing better will ever be achieved. Since 1988, things have indeed improved in terms of drugs in sport.
As for drugs in society, that is another story. I would think most Aust powerlifters who take illegal PEDs are relative gentlemen and focused merely on lifting more weight. in contrast, there are thugs cruising bars with attitudes that violence will nearly always prevail to resolve or even provoke a tense situation.
This is where Wilks falls down big time. He cannot admit that most people in non-PA feds are decent people, not to mention the reality that all people deserve a second chance. He can also not admit that there are also non-drug issues which help explain why there are many non-PA members.
Sad thing is the ASC does not appear interested on the basis it has no regulatory role.
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0ni
Registered Rustler
I'm really tempted to do an IPF meet to show how easy it is to beat the test
But PA registration is $150 and that's a lot of money to spend on such a frivolous affair
Literally all I would have to do is switch to testosterone propionate for 2 months while taking dianabol, then suspension for another month and drop it completely the week of the meet
It's that simple
spartacus
Well-known member
bs Oni, wise up. You would be quickly subject to out-of-comp tests. It is all out there on the public record.
I can't believe you are serious.
For any other PA lifter, your strategy is equivalent to Russian roulette. In reality, the strategy is madness. Fortunately most PA lifters would not listen to such rubbish.
Whatever credibility you were building with me has just gone out of the window. You simply do not know what you are talking about.
I can't believe you are serious.
For any other PA lifter, your strategy is equivalent to Russian roulette. In reality, the strategy is madness. Fortunately most PA lifters would not listen to such rubbish.
Whatever credibility you were building with me has just gone out of the window. You simply do not know what you are talking about.
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0ni, to put it bluntly, you're not good enough for them to care. None of us are.
If you aren't in the top three national slots in your weight class (assuming PA only), who cares if you're on? As a member of PA you'd still be cheating, but if you're that pathetic at cheating then it's not really an issue - no-one cares who wins a local meet, locals only matter for totals.
Inb4 Wilks sees this and decides I'm advocating ped use in PA
If you aren't in the top three national slots in your weight class (assuming PA only), who cares if you're on? As a member of PA you'd still be cheating, but if you're that pathetic at cheating then it's not really an issue - no-one cares who wins a local meet, locals only matter for totals.
Inb4 Wilks sees this and decides I'm advocating ped use in PA
0ni
Registered Rustler
That's not the point though
0ni
Registered Rustler
out-of-comp drug tests would be exactly the same
use suspension, keep T:E ratio 1:4 or below
how do you think athletes do it? pat mendez lasted years before he got popped for gh and his friend for frusemide and that was not even an off season test it was at a competition
you have a lot of faith in testing but reality is if someone really wants to beat a test they can. Just look at Malanichev, Coan, Belyaev, Pozdeev they all lasted years and years before getting caught. And they are not the prodcut of some secret russian agenda either, it was their own country that got them ehre
It was their own country that got them after it got to the point were their country was suspended from the IPF and its return made contingent upon a specific number of tests.
They were political scapegoats to show the IPF that the RPF was really, truly on board with this whole drug-free thing.
And Coan got away with it in a different era, before testing really came in.
They were political scapegoats to show the IPF that the RPF was really, truly on board with this whole drug-free thing.
And Coan got away with it in a different era, before testing really came in.
0ni
Registered Rustler
I don't know about that at all, but I will take your word for it
But fact remain, tests are pretty easy to beat, I have done it beofre even while taking drug
your a medical man aljada, you know that the tests test for metabolites and suspension has no metabolites outside of the usual, especially for piss test
But fact remain, tests are pretty easy to beat, I have done it beofre even while taking drug
your a medical man aljada, you know that the tests test for metabolites and suspension has no metabolites outside of the usual, especially for piss test
spartacus
Well-known member
well if you don't know about that, why make your silly comments.
Fact is it is very hard to beat tests taking any form of testosterone, if a proper out-of-comp testing regime is in place.
Oni says it is easy, but Tyson gay gets caught on testosterone (not official yet), as did Justin gatlin, 2 world champion sprinters. These guys surround themselves with the best experts, but oni knows more than them.
Please.
Fact is it is very hard to beat tests taking any form of testosterone, if a proper out-of-comp testing regime is in place.
Oni says it is easy, but Tyson gay gets caught on testosterone (not official yet), as did Justin gatlin, 2 world champion sprinters. These guys surround themselves with the best experts, but oni knows more than them.
Please.
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The urine tests test for metabolites, total test content and testosterone to a bunch of other hormone ratios. I'm willing to believe its possibly to beat tests (there was that paper that found a variant genotype common among south east Asians that meant around 25% less test was excreted in the urine, for example), but I think it would be very expensive and require full time care from an endocrinologist with daily calculated dosages based on urine and bloods.
I don't see why anyone would go to that expense when it's cheaper and easier to cycle them off, test them unofficially and if they are still positive, claim injury.
I don't see why anyone would go to that expense when it's cheaper and easier to cycle them off, test them unofficially and if they are still positive, claim injury.
vonfram88
Active member
The idea that IPF don't test for two of the more androgenic drugs around seems a little far-fetched to me.
IPF testing is exactly whatever WADA mandate, testing is basically the same across all sports except a couple who also test for alcohol and beta blockers. As far as I know, the exact list of drugs tested for isn't published (presumably to try and stop people looking for one that isn't tested for) but both of those are fairly popular, would be pretty easy to test for and are specifically mentioned on the banned list (rather than being covered by a "or of similar chemical structure or function" clause).
IPF testing is exactly whatever WADA mandate, testing is basically the same across all sports except a couple who also test for alcohol and beta blockers. As far as I know, the exact list of drugs tested for isn't published (presumably to try and stop people looking for one that isn't tested for) but both of those are fairly popular, would be pretty easy to test for and are specifically mentioned on the banned list (rather than being covered by a "or of similar chemical structure or function" clause).
0ni
Registered Rustler
Everyone fucks up at some people
Or at least enough that it's always in the press
Superdrol will pop positive for boldenone
Tren will test positive same as nandrolone