OHP from rack vs clean from floor

[Brick]

The press used to be an olympic lift and it was started off the chest. The above is a photo sequence of a world record press, with alot more weight then shown on any of those videos.

If I used the ROM demonstrated in those vids by wendler and carter, I'm pretty sure I could add 10kg to my strict press. They are only pushing from right above where my sticking point is.

 

[0ni]

And they both lift a lot more than you and are a lot bigger than you
The press is NOT a competition lift, no one here competes in the press. It is used for strengthening and hypertrophy of the shoulders (for the purpose of increasing your bench in the case of the majority of people here) NOT for demonstrating strength. Both Paul and Jim bench over 220kg with a close grip. Go figure.

Now again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't start the press on the shoulders. If you can get your forearms vertical with a close grip with the bar on your shoulders then do it. If you can't, don't.

 

[Darkoz]

Why can't you use the standing press for demonstrating strength?

 

[Brick]

And they both lift a lot more than you and are a lot bigger than you
The press is NOT a competition lift, no one here competes in the press. It is used for strengthening and hypertrophy of the shoulders (for the purpose of increasing your bench in the case of the majority of people here) NOT for demonstrating strength. Both Paul and Jim bench over 220kg with a close grip. Go figure.

Now again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't start the press on the shoulders. If you can get your forearms vertical with a close grip with the bar on your shoulders then do it. If you can't, don't.

So because paul carter and jim wendler are banged up old powerlifters and aren't able to use full rom no one should. Why would you remove 25% of the rom of the lift makes about as much sense as squatting high cause your weak spot is in the bottom.

 

[Darkoz]

So because paul carter and jim wendler are banged up old powerlifters and aren't able to use full rom no one should. Why would you remove 25% of the rom of the lift makes about as much sense as squatting high cause your weak spot is in the bottom.

Very true Fluff

 

[spartacus]

Full range best, and overhead is great test of strength.

I would rather military press 100kg than bench 140kg, although would again be happy with both.

 

[0ni]

Why can't you use the standing press for demonstrating strength?

You can if you want, but there is no real point if you do not compete in it as a max single will not yield decent gains for long (3-4 weeks or 6 sessions - Verkoshansky & Siff)

So because paul carter and jim wendler are banged up old powerlifters and aren't able to use full rom no one should. Why would you remove 25% of the rom of the lift makes about as much sense as squatting high cause your weak spot is in the bottom.

I didn't say that, (removed) I made it more than clear that both methods are acceptable. It doesn't take away 25% of the RoM either

 

[0ni]

What's more weird is that your whole argument is based around an olympic lifter using a technique to reduce the RoM and heave the bar off the chest with the hips. Guess what? As long as your chucking up decent weights you'll be fine. This is why dumbbell push presses, behind the neck push presses, behind the neck strict press, jerks, push press from the front, hell even snatches are great shoulder builders

If you think that strict presses from the shoulders is the only good way to press, you're a fucking nazi. There is no reason to press with these techniques unless you compete in an event that requires you to have the bar touch the chest on every rep such as strongman (and they are allowed to push press still)

 

[jj80]

Liftrunbang has some good cues for lift technique, pity most of his vids are just him doing sets.

There are a lot of people talking about using / 'engaging' antagonistic or minor muscle groups on a lot of lifts, I can see why it gets annoying. Muscles can only pull, and a lot of lifters with good technique but a poor understanding of physics talk a fair bit of rubbish (force = pressure x area, more weight = more body area = more force etc.). There are some good pointers tho, I like 'using the lats as a shelf'.. that's all they are though.

 

[Darkoz]

I didn't say that, you fucking dumbass.

That's not nice

 

[Goosey]

Pulling the bar off the floor prior to pressing will mean your lower back will fatigue earlier than grabbing off the rack.
That's sort of self evident.
All this stuff isn't rocket surgery or brain science though, just lift.

 

[0ni]

Liftrunbang has some good cues for lift technique, pity most of his vids are just him doing sets.

There are a lot of people talking about using / 'engaging' antagonistic or minor muscle groups on a lot of lifts, I can see why it gets annoying. Muscles can only pull, and a lot of lifters with good technique but a poor understanding of physics talk a fair bit of rubbish (force = pressure x area, more weight = more body area = more force etc.). There are some good pointers tho, I like 'using the lats as a shelf'.. that's all they are though.

The theory with the antagonist muscles is more tensing them maximally for elastic rebound on the concentric if you're interested. In the press as an example, the biceps and lats will restrict the last bit of range of motion and spring the weight back up a little. Getting even more technical, the biceps are not strictly antagonists in the press but dynamic stabilisers meaning they lengthen at one end and shorten at the other. So they will be involved in the press, kinda like the hamstrings are involved in the squat just to much less of an extent.

 

[0ni]

"At present, we recognize two styles of performance, the International and the American, which has been adopted from the British. The two principal points of difference are the position of the feet and the starting position of the bell. In the International style the feet may be kept forty centimeters (about 16 inches) apart; in the American style, the heels are kept together. The American style permits holding the bell at chin level before making the press, where the International calls for the bar to be rested on the chest. Otherwise the actual lift is the same. Keeping the body rigidly erect, the knees locked, and the eyes pointed forward, the bell is pressed slowly overhead to full length of arms."

U.S. Olympic Weightlifting coach Mark Berry

Ironically, I found this quote in the same blog post that the image Fluffy posted was included in

 

[jj80]

The theory with the antagonist muscles is more tensing them maximally for elastic rebound on the concentric if you're interested. In the press as an example, the biceps and lats will restrict the last bit of range of motion and spring the weight back up a little. Getting even more technical, the biceps are not strictly antagonists in the press but dynamic stabilisers meaning they lengthen at one end and shorten at the other. So they will be involved in the press, kinda like the hamstrings are involved in the squat just to much less of an extent.

I agree, but I didn't say you couldnt bounce of a shelf My biceps actually have a somewhat similar (but opposite) effect when I do palms forward chins, which gets really annoying - pump = restricted last part of ROM.

I don't know about dynamic stabilising muscles, something to look at when I get bored I guess.

 

[0ni]

I agree, but I didn't say you couldnt bounce of a shelf My biceps actually have a somewhat similar (but opposite) effect when I do palms forward chins, which gets really annoying - pump = restricted last part of ROM.

I don't know about dynamic stabilising muscles, something to look at when I get bored I guess.

It is just as simple as a muscle with two (or more) heads. One of which contracts and the other relaxes. Like the hamstrings in the squat, calves in the squat/deadlift, biceps and so on. Many people forget to train these because they wrongly assume that they do not play a large role in the exercise but really you will get good results from training them if they are lacking as the main exercises don't really hit them too well. As much as people shit on curls and calve raises lol

 

[Brick]

Full range best, and overhead is great test of strength.

I would rather military press 100kg than bench 140kg, although would again be happy with both.

Missed this post amongst all the bullshit. I agree 100%, definietly think mil press is the ultimate test of upper body strength

 

[Fadi]

Has anyone else noticed that if they clean the bar from the floor prior to overhead presses rather than just lifting it out from the rack at chest height, you are able to press more weight / the same weight feels easier?

I am trying to work out why on earth this would be the case for me - my guess at the moment is cleaning the bar gets me into a better starting position?

It has something to do with the excitability factor, or the priming of the neurons if you will. Picture your power clean as being the equivalent of an injected caffeine shot that has just gotten your CNS all excited and primed for some action.

I find that if you take choline with inositol, the time it takes for your muscles to fire would be reduced a fraction of a second, i.e. there’d be a faster generation of power, which in real life would mean a faster punch, a quicker kick, or more primed neurons ready to fire at will to help you lift the weight before you. Bodybuilders would benefit with a feeling of more energy and a sense of the ability to prolong a particular set further.

I first experimented with choline and inositol back in 1987, with other bodybuilders in the gym at the time reporting back with the same experience as I had.

Caution: Do not take choline if you’re experiencing a headache or some muscle tension, as it would exasperate the problem, giving you a stiff neck and trapezius muscles… (I’ve never experienced these side effects, but it doesn’t hurt to be aware of this info).


Fadi.

 

[spartacus]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdV_YRFsqog&list=HL1351411350&feature=mh_lolz[/ame]



Here is my spartacus style (87.5kg at 96kg) late last year.

I will aim for 100kg in 2013 at around 90kg bodyweight. May learn to lean back more at start. Probably only way i will get it.

Have done 6 reps on 95kg behind my neck, about 20 years ago.

 

[NightFallTech]

Did this for the first time friday, clean and press with 60kg and having not off training for a while and still getting my PB of 60kg AFTER benching... i'm agreeing i'm seeing better results with a clean prior to the first rep.

Having said that, my gym doesn't have bumpers... i'm not quite sure what a failed clean would look like and i felt like my 60's didn't have a lot more left in them!

 

[0ni]

Sweet lift Sam