Limits.

[Romp]

Howdy!


I have a question rather indicative of my experience in lifting & weights which has to do with knowing when to not attempt the last rep. It might sound stupid but I really do not know. I hear do until fail all of the time, but I've only ever done until fail because I thought my Bicep was going to snap (or something) not because I didn't feel I could do it again. I can very easily separate my mind from my muscle and when I do that the only thing I can really gauge is weather I'm supposed to keep going, as opposed to "Stop now before injury". I push until there is shooting pain and tightness, and stop out of fear of injury - not because I don't think I can go again. Does that make sense? So I guess that's why the concept of push until fail has me confused, because going until failure would be far beyond that threshold, if only mentally.

I know this is going to sound ridiculous but it's the only way I'll ever know.
What happens if I keep going past the point where I'm certain my arm is going to explode? is that what you're supposed to do? can my muscle actually snap? (that must sound so stupid, but I don't know). I want to know weather try until fail means fail within mental boundaries, fail within what you think may cause injury, or fail because you probably just busted your arm.

I'm starting the PPP program tonight and this the kind of information I want to take with me going in to the gym.

Sorry if your IQ just took a beating & thanks for your patience.

 

[leachy]

The human body can withstand alot of pain and agony. Do what you feel comfortable with. You really need to learn to listen to your body. And remember you lift for a long time, so theres no point going balls out on one workout if you won't be able to recover for the next.

 

[TLS]

I was thinking about this the other day. Along the lines of Menta Failure (giving up) and Physical Failure (simply being unable to continue the motion while your mind is willing.)
I'm sure Markos should answer you because you are doing PPP, but I'll quote Fadi at the moment. Always leave 1 rep in the tank at the end of a set.
It's easy to say,"I'm going for 10 reps but at the end of 5, I feel I can get a 6th but not a 7th." But it's harder to do. If you don't go to failure sometime, how will you know when you are 1 rep away?

I'll add an anecdote to this.

A friend of mine was very active. Soccer, netball, cycling. Then he had a few years off and put on a gut of 10 or more kg. He went back to netball. While on the court, his mind said, "Put all you have into your right leg and accelerate me over to there." But his achilles tendon tried to transfer all that extra weight and he ended up with a 95% tear of the tendon.
Simple injury, straight line conditions, no other players involved. 1 rep to failure.

 

[Hirdy]

As a beginner I don't have much choice but to fail (quickly & often!), though failure can come in 2 forms that I know of...

a) I physically cannot do any more reps, say chin-ups, I just cannot get myself up for another rep. No more energy left, and dying. The last one saw me shaking, and there's no more lft in my. Im tring, but I'm stuck 1/4 of the way up. Finished.

b) My form starts sucking. I might get into the finish position 3 more times, but they are rubbish reps. Say barbell curls, I'll start leaning back to help swing the weight up, my biceps are no longer helping so whats the point?

I certainly don't get a choice whether to go on and hurt myself or not, but I can generally tell when Ive done my last rep (whether I like t or not) because I only just got there and/or my form was rubbish.

 

[walt]

As a beginner I don't have much choice but to fail (quickly & often!), though failure can come in 2 forms that I know of...

a) I physically cannot do any more reps, say chin-ups, I just cannot get myself up for another rep. No more energy left, and dying. The last one saw me shaking, and there's no more lft in my. Im tring, but I'm stuck 1/4 of the way up. Finished.

b) My form starts sucking. I might get into the finish position 3 more times, but they are rubbish reps. Say barbell curls, I'll start leaning back to help swing the weight up, my biceps are no longer helping so whats the point?

I certainly don't get a choice whether to go on and hurt myself or not, but I can generally tell when Ive done my last rep (whether I like t or not) because I only just got there and/or my form was rubbish.

A) It might help if you got someone to push out the extra rep for you. I find it helps me.

B) Yes, your form will never be as good on the last reps compared to the first reps, you are tired by then.

Note - if you are cutting (i thought you were), your strength generally will not go up as much as someone else who is bulking.

 

[Christian]

Your CNS should shut down before you come close to ripping things off...

Doesnt always happen but it should..

 

[Goosey]

Everyone is going to have a different perspective on what is "failure" MMF or as I like to call it - fatigue, this also dictates your intensity of work which is also subjective, everyones threshold of pain will differ, the only thing that is tangible is results, if you are progressing then you are doing everything correctly.

The first rep is going to be the most dangerous in terms of injury and the last, the safest if all reps are performed in a smooth motion and without using momentum or jerky movements.

 

[tat maytals]

a broken bone is natures way of telling you to stop. Muscle injuries don't count

 

[leachy]

Your CNS should shut down before you come close to ripping things off...

Doesnt always happen but it should..

LOL your cns won't shut down before popping a shoulder or tearing a bicep.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

You are a beginner, so "failure" isn't going to be terribly draining or dangerous for you.

Just do the target reps according to whatever the routine says. If it says to lift (for example) 40kg 3x7, then lift 40kg 3x7 whether you find them easy or hard.

 

[Rugby88]

Balls to the wall - dont think so much

 

[Sherro]

Balls to the wall - dont think so much

Seconded.

 

[TTT]

if you are doing PPP you will find there are no "to failure" sets.

 

[Oli]

LOL your cns won't shut down before popping a shoulder or tearing a bicep.

It will that's its job.

Balls to the wall - dont think so much

This. Failure training gets confusing when you do singles etc.

Try to get all the reps of the program. On assistance work on the last set if you feel you have another rep left in you get it out.

 

[leachy]

It will that's its job.



This. Failure training gets confusing when you do singles etc.

Try to get all the reps of the program. On assistance work on the last set if you feel you have another rep left in you get it out.

Have you ever injured yourself?

I've dislocated my shoulder more times than I care to remember. The first time about 5 years ago, I was in agony, sitting waiting for over an hour for a doctor to pop it back in. I don't recall my cns shutting down...

 

[Oli]

Have you ever injured yourself?

I've dislocated my shoulder more times than I care to remember. The first time about 5 years ago, I was in agony, sitting waiting for over an hour for a doctor to pop it back in. I don't recall my cns shutting down...

From a short excursus on cns ability:

CrossFit is more about these dynamic movements. It would be interesting to know how much is “in reserve” centrally in terms of force production to individual muscles. In a complex lift, you’re only as strong as the weakest link. The brain seems to monitor these things so that one part does not fail catastrophically. (You’d hate to rip your forearm muscle in half just because your quads were capable of snatching some big weight after years of backsquats.)

 

[leachy]

From a short excursus on cns ability:

Crossfit is gay. Your response didn't answer my question. The cns does not shut down before an injury. Otherwise we wouldn't need hospital beds...

 

[Oli]

Crossfit is gay. Your response didn't answer my question. The cns does not shut down before an injury. Otherwise we wouldn't need hospital beds...

Your cns has a maximal capacity that runs out before the muscle itself does.

 

[Iron Alliance]

Group A: Muscular Tears

Groub B: Joint Dislocation

Lets try and argue over one all covering theory despite the complete difference in injuries! Yaaaaaaaay!

 

[TGM]

Have you ever injured yourself?

I've dislocated my shoulder more times than I care to remember. The first time about 5 years ago, I was in agony, sitting waiting for over an hour for a doctor to pop it back in. I don't recall my cns shutting down...

Once you dislocate your shoulder once it's much easier to dislocate it again, and no your CNS won't save you there.

I think Oliver might be talking about stuff like not being able to get a heavy deadlift off the ground with a double overhand grip, while switching to mixed will let you get the bar up easily.