I used Mesomorph while cutting. I went from 96kg - 90kg in 5 weeks with a 2700cal 60g carb per day diet and was lifting just as much on most lifts as when I was bulking and stuffing myself, its pretty awesome stuff.
-
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I used Mesomorph while cutting. I went from 96kg - 90kg in 5 weeks with a 2700cal 60g carb per day diet and was lifting just as much on most lifts as when I was bulking and stuffing myself, its pretty awesome stuff.
siminister
New member
anyone tried the curse from cobra labs, now that is the stuff.
Hey all,
Here’s my opinion on pre-workout supplements from a Bioflex perspective...
Bioflex’s Biocharge vs. Jack3d
First, let’s look at what pre workout products are for.
Pre Workout products are specifically designed to assist workout performance. They can do this in a number of ways, the first, and perhaps most important way of increasing performance is the inclusion of aminos acids that assist blood flow, nutrient uptake, strength, endurance and recovery and so on.
Those who have put time into researching amino acids and what they do, will be familiar with which aminos are useful here, all of the products mentioned contained some “performance aminos”, however the amount and number of which, varies significantly.
There is no text book definition of “Performance Aminos”, IMO they are aminos which are primarily used to increase workout performance rather than enhance recovery as many aminos are.
Carbohydrates can be included to enhance energy levels directly, which is why they often get a look in. The problem with carbs is that they are as cheap as chips (in fact potatoes are a great form of carbohydrates). Sugars and other short chain carbs can be had for a few dollars a kg, which is why they have NO place in any pre workout product give their cost.
Can carbohydrates around training time be useful?
Absolutely, however if you want to add them you are much better off purchasing them separately, it’s cheaper and you can control levels better. If you are paying the equivalent of $200 a kg for a pre workout supp, the last thing you want is half of it to be sugar which is worth less than $2 a kg!
I assume most people reading this understand this already.
Stimulants are the third group of ingredients which are commonly found in pre workout products and due to their potencty have become the most popular. As they are incredibly powerful per dose, the result if that they can be used to make a powerful product incredibly cheaply.
Stimulants are very misunderstood, which is why you commonly hear people taling about how they ‘give you energy”, when the reverse is actually true. Stimulants work by increasing nervous system activity (usually through dopamine and adrenal channels) the problem with stimulants is that they have a great effect on the body, what goes up must come down, with the end result a crash when used in high doses.
That said, stimulants do play an important role in pre workout products, the word here is use with caution as too much can be a real negative. The stimulants used in these products are caffeine, DMAA (geranium extract) as well as Schizandrol A in the case of jack3d.
Now, we know what goes into pre workout products and their method of action, let’s compare thes one’s in question here (BioCharge and Jack3d).
All are quite similar in that compared to most they are what would be deemed high quality. All of these are virtually carbohydrate free, and contain a mix of amino acids and stimulants to improve performance.
Calorie free?
Before we go any further something needs to be straightened out. If you purchase a powdered pre workout product which claims to be “calorie free” it is nothing but lies, yes lies. Unbelievably the yanks get away with listing amino acids as having no caloric value.
WTF?
Well, some bright spark figured as they are incomplete proteins (remember amino acids in combination make up protein structures) they don’t need to be given a caloric value.
Obviously, they do have a caloric value, one that is identical to other proteins. To calculate the KJ’s of protein in any pre workout supp just mutiply the number of amino acids by 17, though keep in mind that aminos with esters attached (ethyl ester, malic acid) will have slightly lower caloric values as the salt attachments have no caloric value.
So apart from being annoyed that you are being lied to on a label, just keep in mind when you are dieting that the “calorie free” pre workout products (or any amino product for that matter which claims as such) does indeed have plenty of calories in it.
Let’s look at the aminos used in these products
Jacked contains a combination of AAKG, (Arginine Alpha Ketogluterate), Creatine Monohydrate and Beta Alanaine - 3 in total
BioCharge uses a combination of Arginine, Creatinol Phosphate, Beta Alanaine, Citrulline Malate, Phenylalanine, Acetyl Tyrosine - 6 in total
There is more to this story though, and the biggest difference with BioCharge and the others. BioCharge also contains Glycerol Monostearate along with calcium, magnesium, potassium and sodium, which are included for the benefits of hydration, as well as niacin for it’s nitric oxide effect. Whether this is of benefit is up to you, the longer you train and the more your training is endurance based, the more it the electrolytes and glycerol mono will help.
BioCharge also contains a very special ingredient that neither other does, adenosine disodium tri phosphate this is the closest thing availale to the actual molecule ATP, which is the key player for muscular contractions.
Now let’s look at what percentage of each product is active ingredients.
This is one of the most important part of analysing any product. What percentage of ingredients are actually in their to assist you performing better.
For this purpose, the defintion of “active ingredients” is amino acids and stimulants.
98% - 9800mg in a 10,000 mg dose of BioCharge is active ingredients
75% - 4145mg in a 5550mg dose of Jack3d is active ingredients.
So, what makes up the rest of these?
In the case of BioCharge nothing but a touch of sweetener (sucralose) and flavourer, in the case of Jack3d you have citric acid, ace k (a very cheap artificial sweetener), sucralose, grape extract and silicon dixide, which is used as an anti caking agent.
Are these other ingredients useful, I’ll leave that up to you, but IMO they don’t add anything in the way of maximising performance however, and rather are used for the benefits of taste and mixability.
The problem with adding anything like this, is that it means less of the good stuff, which is why I have an issue with non active ingredients being used.
So, how much of each ingredient is in each one and which ingredients are the best?
If the number of ingredients is a key part, even more important is the actual amount of each ingredient, so let’s take a look at that.
Per 10g (10,000mg) serve BioCharge contains -
Citrulline Malate - 2000mg
Creatinol Phosphate - 2000mg
Glycerol Monostearate - 1400mg
Beta Alanine - 1500mg
Arginine - 1500mg
Phenylalanine - 450mg
Acetyl Tyrosine - 450mg
Magnesium - 150mg
Caffeine - 150mg
Potassium - 100mg
Adenosine Tri Phosphate - 100mg
DMAA 50mg
Sodium - 50mg
Calcium 30mg
Niacin - 20mg
Per 4.145 (4145mg) dose of Jack3d contains -
A blend of creatine monohydrate, beta alanine, aakg, caffeine, dmaa and schizandrol a.
Yeah, but how much? I can hear you say
Here, we have stumbled across another common problem with U.S supplements. The damn proprietory blend. Yep, proprietory blends are made so you don’t know what amounts of each ingredient is actually in there. Why?
Well, a supplement company would tell you because they must keep their special recipe secret, so no one copies it.
a sceptic however would say so they could include a lot of cheap ingredients, and less of the better ones. The result is a supplement which is much cheaper to produce than you may expect.
Throwing Creatine Monohydrate in there is a bit of a worry. A good supplement alright, it certainly is, however at $25 a kg from this random supplier CREATINE MONOHYDRATE - 1KG do you really want it in your pre workout supp which is costing you over $200 a kg?
As an raw ingredients the Citrulline Malate used in BioCharge and the Creatinol Phosphate cost us over 5 times as much as creatine monohydrate as raw ingredients.
While all of these aminos are great, not knowing how much of them are in each dose is a bit of a worry. Given that 1500mg - 2000mg of each is a good minimum, you have to question whether there is enough in there to make much of an effect (just over 4000mg of total dose)
Of course, that is where the stimulants take over.
Again, unfortunately we have no idea of how much is actually in each serve, so again you take the gamble. It’s only your body after all! With Biocharge and Recover X (another Bioflex product) you know exactly how much of each ingredient is in there including the stimulants.
I don’t care about the numbers let’s look at the cost?
Ok, well for many if not most it all boil down to cost and those numbers are quite clear.
BioCharge at 98% active ingredients is $79 per kg, or more precisely $80.61 per kg of active ingredients.
(980 grams of ingredients in a 1kg tub.)
Jack3d at 75% active ingredients is generally about $45 per 250g or more precisely $240 per kg of active ingredients
(187.5 grams of active ingredients in a 250g container).
Given all of this information I think it is fair to make the following conclusions.
BioCharge contains a significantly higher % of active ingredients than Jack3d.
Biocharge provides a large advantage in that all ingredients are properly disclosed.
Biocharge provides higher spec ingredients, Citrulline Malate, Creatines with esters in place of creatine monohydrate and provides a larger number of key ingredients which assist with performance as well as higher inclusion rates per dose.
Finally, it’s less than 1/3 of the price of jack3d when inclusion rates are taken into account.
If you want what is potentially the world’s most pure pre workout product , containing a great combination of aminos, stimulants and ingredients for hydration at a great price - BioCharge is a great choice http://www.bioflexnutrition.com.au/biocharge.cfm
Sorry for the rant but thought it’s important to provide this information. We're also all-Australian as well so even more reason to have a look at Bioflex.
Here’s my opinion on pre-workout supplements from a Bioflex perspective...
Bioflex’s Biocharge vs. Jack3d
First, let’s look at what pre workout products are for.
Pre Workout products are specifically designed to assist workout performance. They can do this in a number of ways, the first, and perhaps most important way of increasing performance is the inclusion of aminos acids that assist blood flow, nutrient uptake, strength, endurance and recovery and so on.
Those who have put time into researching amino acids and what they do, will be familiar with which aminos are useful here, all of the products mentioned contained some “performance aminos”, however the amount and number of which, varies significantly.
There is no text book definition of “Performance Aminos”, IMO they are aminos which are primarily used to increase workout performance rather than enhance recovery as many aminos are.
Carbohydrates can be included to enhance energy levels directly, which is why they often get a look in. The problem with carbs is that they are as cheap as chips (in fact potatoes are a great form of carbohydrates). Sugars and other short chain carbs can be had for a few dollars a kg, which is why they have NO place in any pre workout product give their cost.
Can carbohydrates around training time be useful?
Absolutely, however if you want to add them you are much better off purchasing them separately, it’s cheaper and you can control levels better. If you are paying the equivalent of $200 a kg for a pre workout supp, the last thing you want is half of it to be sugar which is worth less than $2 a kg!
I assume most people reading this understand this already.
Stimulants are the third group of ingredients which are commonly found in pre workout products and due to their potencty have become the most popular. As they are incredibly powerful per dose, the result if that they can be used to make a powerful product incredibly cheaply.
Stimulants are very misunderstood, which is why you commonly hear people taling about how they ‘give you energy”, when the reverse is actually true. Stimulants work by increasing nervous system activity (usually through dopamine and adrenal channels) the problem with stimulants is that they have a great effect on the body, what goes up must come down, with the end result a crash when used in high doses.
That said, stimulants do play an important role in pre workout products, the word here is use with caution as too much can be a real negative. The stimulants used in these products are caffeine, DMAA (geranium extract) as well as Schizandrol A in the case of jack3d.
Now, we know what goes into pre workout products and their method of action, let’s compare thes one’s in question here (BioCharge and Jack3d).
All are quite similar in that compared to most they are what would be deemed high quality. All of these are virtually carbohydrate free, and contain a mix of amino acids and stimulants to improve performance.
Calorie free?
Before we go any further something needs to be straightened out. If you purchase a powdered pre workout product which claims to be “calorie free” it is nothing but lies, yes lies. Unbelievably the yanks get away with listing amino acids as having no caloric value.
WTF?
Well, some bright spark figured as they are incomplete proteins (remember amino acids in combination make up protein structures) they don’t need to be given a caloric value.
Obviously, they do have a caloric value, one that is identical to other proteins. To calculate the KJ’s of protein in any pre workout supp just mutiply the number of amino acids by 17, though keep in mind that aminos with esters attached (ethyl ester, malic acid) will have slightly lower caloric values as the salt attachments have no caloric value.
So apart from being annoyed that you are being lied to on a label, just keep in mind when you are dieting that the “calorie free” pre workout products (or any amino product for that matter which claims as such) does indeed have plenty of calories in it.
Let’s look at the aminos used in these products
Jacked contains a combination of AAKG, (Arginine Alpha Ketogluterate), Creatine Monohydrate and Beta Alanaine - 3 in total
BioCharge uses a combination of Arginine, Creatinol Phosphate, Beta Alanaine, Citrulline Malate, Phenylalanine, Acetyl Tyrosine - 6 in total
There is more to this story though, and the biggest difference with BioCharge and the others. BioCharge also contains Glycerol Monostearate along with calcium, magnesium, potassium and sodium, which are included for the benefits of hydration, as well as niacin for it’s nitric oxide effect. Whether this is of benefit is up to you, the longer you train and the more your training is endurance based, the more it the electrolytes and glycerol mono will help.
BioCharge also contains a very special ingredient that neither other does, adenosine disodium tri phosphate this is the closest thing availale to the actual molecule ATP, which is the key player for muscular contractions.
Now let’s look at what percentage of each product is active ingredients.
This is one of the most important part of analysing any product. What percentage of ingredients are actually in their to assist you performing better.
For this purpose, the defintion of “active ingredients” is amino acids and stimulants.
98% - 9800mg in a 10,000 mg dose of BioCharge is active ingredients
75% - 4145mg in a 5550mg dose of Jack3d is active ingredients.
So, what makes up the rest of these?
In the case of BioCharge nothing but a touch of sweetener (sucralose) and flavourer, in the case of Jack3d you have citric acid, ace k (a very cheap artificial sweetener), sucralose, grape extract and silicon dixide, which is used as an anti caking agent.
Are these other ingredients useful, I’ll leave that up to you, but IMO they don’t add anything in the way of maximising performance however, and rather are used for the benefits of taste and mixability.
The problem with adding anything like this, is that it means less of the good stuff, which is why I have an issue with non active ingredients being used.
So, how much of each ingredient is in each one and which ingredients are the best?
If the number of ingredients is a key part, even more important is the actual amount of each ingredient, so let’s take a look at that.
Per 10g (10,000mg) serve BioCharge contains -
Citrulline Malate - 2000mg
Creatinol Phosphate - 2000mg
Glycerol Monostearate - 1400mg
Beta Alanine - 1500mg
Arginine - 1500mg
Phenylalanine - 450mg
Acetyl Tyrosine - 450mg
Magnesium - 150mg
Caffeine - 150mg
Potassium - 100mg
Adenosine Tri Phosphate - 100mg
DMAA 50mg
Sodium - 50mg
Calcium 30mg
Niacin - 20mg
Per 4.145 (4145mg) dose of Jack3d contains -
A blend of creatine monohydrate, beta alanine, aakg, caffeine, dmaa and schizandrol a.
Yeah, but how much? I can hear you say
Here, we have stumbled across another common problem with U.S supplements. The damn proprietory blend. Yep, proprietory blends are made so you don’t know what amounts of each ingredient is actually in there. Why?
Well, a supplement company would tell you because they must keep their special recipe secret, so no one copies it.
a sceptic however would say so they could include a lot of cheap ingredients, and less of the better ones. The result is a supplement which is much cheaper to produce than you may expect.
Throwing Creatine Monohydrate in there is a bit of a worry. A good supplement alright, it certainly is, however at $25 a kg from this random supplier CREATINE MONOHYDRATE - 1KG do you really want it in your pre workout supp which is costing you over $200 a kg?
As an raw ingredients the Citrulline Malate used in BioCharge and the Creatinol Phosphate cost us over 5 times as much as creatine monohydrate as raw ingredients.
While all of these aminos are great, not knowing how much of them are in each dose is a bit of a worry. Given that 1500mg - 2000mg of each is a good minimum, you have to question whether there is enough in there to make much of an effect (just over 4000mg of total dose)
Of course, that is where the stimulants take over.
Again, unfortunately we have no idea of how much is actually in each serve, so again you take the gamble. It’s only your body after all! With Biocharge and Recover X (another Bioflex product) you know exactly how much of each ingredient is in there including the stimulants.
I don’t care about the numbers let’s look at the cost?
Ok, well for many if not most it all boil down to cost and those numbers are quite clear.
BioCharge at 98% active ingredients is $79 per kg, or more precisely $80.61 per kg of active ingredients.
(980 grams of ingredients in a 1kg tub.)
Jack3d at 75% active ingredients is generally about $45 per 250g or more precisely $240 per kg of active ingredients
(187.5 grams of active ingredients in a 250g container).
Given all of this information I think it is fair to make the following conclusions.
BioCharge contains a significantly higher % of active ingredients than Jack3d.
Biocharge provides a large advantage in that all ingredients are properly disclosed.
Biocharge provides higher spec ingredients, Citrulline Malate, Creatines with esters in place of creatine monohydrate and provides a larger number of key ingredients which assist with performance as well as higher inclusion rates per dose.
Finally, it’s less than 1/3 of the price of jack3d when inclusion rates are taken into account.
If you want what is potentially the world’s most pure pre workout product , containing a great combination of aminos, stimulants and ingredients for hydration at a great price - BioCharge is a great choice http://www.bioflexnutrition.com.au/biocharge.cfm
Sorry for the rant but thought it’s important to provide this information. We're also all-Australian as well so even more reason to have a look at Bioflex.
leachy
New member
99.9% sure its the same company.
Hey Guys,
We are the same company though the products sold through Bulk Nutrients are primarily your more raw ingredients such as WPI & WPC, pure amino's, caffeine and the like whereas Bioflex is more your premium brand with blends of products that work better in synergy with each other, I guess you could say Bioflex is your BSN of the 2.
Biocharge while somewhat similar to the Bulk Nutrients pre-workout has a higher % active ingredients and ingredients per serve as per my post and also contains an electrolyte combination to keep you hydrated while you workout and as a result you can workout for longer without the crash.
We reformulated the product to be better both interms of taste and effectiveness too now with the inclusion of DMAA.
We are the same company though the products sold through Bulk Nutrients are primarily your more raw ingredients such as WPI & WPC, pure amino's, caffeine and the like whereas Bioflex is more your premium brand with blends of products that work better in synergy with each other, I guess you could say Bioflex is your BSN of the 2.
Biocharge while somewhat similar to the Bulk Nutrients pre-workout has a higher % active ingredients and ingredients per serve as per my post and also contains an electrolyte combination to keep you hydrated while you workout and as a result you can workout for longer without the crash.
We reformulated the product to be better both interms of taste and effectiveness too now with the inclusion of DMAA.
DMAA only became popular when ephedra was made illegal. Then it was in everything...One of the first ones was Jacked.
Jacked is only good because it contains Dmaa + Caffeine.
DMAA
Its effects are limited to inducing catecholamine release through facilitated exchange with NE transporters, and by directly displacing NE within terminal vesicles into the synapse. (pharmacology explained below)
Whats a catecholamine?
They are called catecholamines because they contain a catechol or 3,4-dihydroxyphenyl group. They are derived from the amino acid tyrosine.[2]
In the human body, the most abundant catecholamines are epinephrine (adrenaline), norepinephrine (noradrenaline) and dopamine, all of which are produced from phenylalanine and tyrosine.
However without the phenyl ring that amphetamines or ephedra has DMAA is unable to induce secretion of any of these above catecholamines. Its effects are limited to being Psychotropic.
It gives you a fight or flight 'feeling' without any real substance behind it. Makes you 'feel' like you can lift 100kg therefore you do...but no real substantial effects like ephedra or an amphetamine. still i guess thats a plus... thats why so many guys buy jack3d and say they lifted extra reps...they could anyway they just didnt have the focus...but if your an expereinced bb it prob will just feel like a caffein hit
But it has all the negative effects of an amphetamine.
Pharmacology of 1,3 DMAA
Due to 1,3-DMAA's structural limitations, including lacking the phenyl ring, 1,3-DMAA does not participate in direct agonism of adrenergic receptors. Its effects are limited to inducing catecholamine release through facilitated exchange with NE transporters, and by directly displacing NE within terminal vesicles into the synapse. The overall effects of 1,3-DMAA, therefore, fall under the umbrella of the effects of norepinephrine. However since it foes nothing to the adregenic receptors, its effects are limited to being psychotropic with some turnover effects by the body.
1,3-DMAA and Exercise
The most important and relevant aspect of 1,3-DMAA's pharmacology is its effects on blood pressure during exercise. In a normal individual, systolic pressure generally increases as a consequence of an increased stroke volume, among other things. Similarly, diastolic pressure generally decreases or stays the same as the vascular beds in muscle are vasodilated [4]. The etiology of the vasodilation is due to localized effects of vasodilating metabolites (adenosine, exc) and due to hyper-responsiveness to catecholamine agonism of the beta2 receptors. Since norepinphrine and epinephrine saturate the plasma during exercise, the vasoconstrictive properties of 1,3-DMAA may be sufficiently blunted, especially in the amounts generally taken (20-30mg), and especially through oral administration. It's efffects may, however, by exaggerated by the co-administration of other adrenergic agents.
[1]http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument;jsessionid=6853DCE97D1C986231EBD0 2D2A669B8D.espacenet_levelx_prod_5?CC=US&NR=235031 8A&KC=A&FT=D&date=19440530&DB=&locale=
[2] THE COMPARATIVE PHARMACOLOGY OF THE ISOMERIC HEPTYLAMINES’ DAVID F. MARSH
Jacked is only good because it contains Dmaa + Caffeine.
DMAA
Its effects are limited to inducing catecholamine release through facilitated exchange with NE transporters, and by directly displacing NE within terminal vesicles into the synapse. (pharmacology explained below)
Whats a catecholamine?
They are called catecholamines because they contain a catechol or 3,4-dihydroxyphenyl group. They are derived from the amino acid tyrosine.[2]
In the human body, the most abundant catecholamines are epinephrine (adrenaline), norepinephrine (noradrenaline) and dopamine, all of which are produced from phenylalanine and tyrosine.
However without the phenyl ring that amphetamines or ephedra has DMAA is unable to induce secretion of any of these above catecholamines. Its effects are limited to being Psychotropic.
It gives you a fight or flight 'feeling' without any real substance behind it. Makes you 'feel' like you can lift 100kg therefore you do...but no real substantial effects like ephedra or an amphetamine. still i guess thats a plus... thats why so many guys buy jack3d and say they lifted extra reps...they could anyway they just didnt have the focus...but if your an expereinced bb it prob will just feel like a caffein hit
But it has all the negative effects of an amphetamine.
Pharmacology of 1,3 DMAA
Due to 1,3-DMAA's structural limitations, including lacking the phenyl ring, 1,3-DMAA does not participate in direct agonism of adrenergic receptors. Its effects are limited to inducing catecholamine release through facilitated exchange with NE transporters, and by directly displacing NE within terminal vesicles into the synapse. The overall effects of 1,3-DMAA, therefore, fall under the umbrella of the effects of norepinephrine. However since it foes nothing to the adregenic receptors, its effects are limited to being psychotropic with some turnover effects by the body.
1,3-DMAA and Exercise
The most important and relevant aspect of 1,3-DMAA's pharmacology is its effects on blood pressure during exercise. In a normal individual, systolic pressure generally increases as a consequence of an increased stroke volume, among other things. Similarly, diastolic pressure generally decreases or stays the same as the vascular beds in muscle are vasodilated [4]. The etiology of the vasodilation is due to localized effects of vasodilating metabolites (adenosine, exc) and due to hyper-responsiveness to catecholamine agonism of the beta2 receptors. Since norepinphrine and epinephrine saturate the plasma during exercise, the vasoconstrictive properties of 1,3-DMAA may be sufficiently blunted, especially in the amounts generally taken (20-30mg), and especially through oral administration. It's efffects may, however, by exaggerated by the co-administration of other adrenergic agents.
[1]http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument;jsessionid=6853DCE97D1C986231EBD0 2D2A669B8D.espacenet_levelx_prod_5?CC=US&NR=235031 8A&KC=A&FT=D&date=19440530&DB=&locale=
[2] THE COMPARATIVE PHARMACOLOGY OF THE ISOMERIC HEPTYLAMINES’ DAVID F. MARSH
Last edited:
TheGiftToLift
New member
ill take two boxes!!!
thePoo2012
Noob - No. Boob - Yes.
Bulk Buys
Has anyone tried to buy bulk boxes of PWO supps at heavily discounted prices. I'm with Chris, Meso is great!
Has anyone tried to buy bulk boxes of PWO supps at heavily discounted prices. I'm with Chris, Meso is great!
candyflip
Fatty
nazzysmith
kuncesmith
Strong first post..
Lolz...
thePoo2012
Noob - No. Boob - Yes.
Mixing DMAA powder, Whey and PWO supplements
Has anyone got the "new" pre workout supplement regime down, once Jack3d, Meso, and Hemo etc. are banned.
1. DMAA powder takes about an hour to work after taken, similar to Whey protein and a multivitamin.
2. Pre workouts without DMAA recommend taking 30 minutes prior to workouts ON AN EMPTY STOMACH.
Problem: Can you mix DMAA powder with Whey Protein (1 hour pre workout), then does the stomach clear of Whey protein within 30 minutes so you can then take the pre workout supplement (without DMAA) 30 prior to workout.
Has anyone got the "new" pre workout supplement regime down, once Jack3d, Meso, and Hemo etc. are banned.
1. DMAA powder takes about an hour to work after taken, similar to Whey protein and a multivitamin.
2. Pre workouts without DMAA recommend taking 30 minutes prior to workouts ON AN EMPTY STOMACH.
Problem: Can you mix DMAA powder with Whey Protein (1 hour pre workout), then does the stomach clear of Whey protein within 30 minutes so you can then take the pre workout supplement (without DMAA) 30 prior to workout.