Exercise machines are for cripples

[Darkoz]

You are working under the assumption that people are lazy.

I saw people who had paid good money for personal training. They obviously had some initial level of dedication. But after a few months of lackluster results give it up. If I was going to the gym and not feeling like my time was beneficial, I'd stop going too.

The footballers made the best progress of all the groups I have witnessed. Their programs were all squat and bench heavy. Many were lazy, but the focus on main lifts brought them overall more noticable results.

Well the fact is that most gym goers ARE lazy and think that having a personal trainer will do the hard work for them.

And perhaps footballers show more dedication than your average recreational gym goer, therefore better results regardless of whether they're using free weights or not?

 

[dave]

You are working under the assumption that people are lazy.

I saw people who had paid good money for personal training. They obviously had some initial level of dedication. But after a few months of lackluster results give it up. If I was going to the gym and not feeling like my time was beneficial, I'd stop going too.

The footballers made the best progress of all the groups I have witnessed. Their programs were all squat and bench heavy. Many were lazy, but the focus on main lifts brought them overall more noticable results.

Whilst i agree you get better results from barbell movements. In regards to people having a PT you can tell you have not trained anyone, sadly many are not driven and even when paying for a PT they will be lazy still just in a different way.

 

[chocchillimango]

Wow so many sweeping generalisations by you guys.

Seriously?

 

[Bazza20]

Whilst i agree you get better results from barbell movements. In regards to people having a PT you can tell you have not trained anyone, sadly many are not driven and even when paying for a PT they will be lazy still just in a different way.

Yeah people pay a PT and assume that is the hard work done.

 

[solarbear]

Whilst i agree you get better results from barbell movements. In regards to people having a PT you can tell you have not trained anyone, sadly many are not driven and even when paying for a PT they will be lazy still just in a different way.

I disagree. These people paid good money. They clearly had some level of dedication. Many were worked to exhaustion by their pt. Yet 6 months later were still in poor shape.

The fooballers did a bit of bench and squats and after a few months each had gotten a bit bigger and stronger. Most of the time they appeared to be dogging it by comparison.

Free weights are heaps better anyone who says differently is lying.

 

[Darkoz]

Wow so many sweeping generalisations by you guys.

Seriously?

Because that's life, serious.

 

[chocchillimango]

Because that's life, serious.

Yeah, but most people who start up with a PT usually have goals and dedication. There are a lot of poor quality PTs out there too who don't do the right thing by their clients ("one way to train" mentality, or lack of knowledge etc).
Machines have their role, depending on the context of an individual's situation and their goals.

Maybe it's a case of "what works for the individual" as part of a program.

 

[Darkoz]

Yeah, but most people who start up with a PT usually have goals and dedication. There are a lot of poor quality PTs out there too who don't do the right thing by their clients ("one way to train" mentality, or lack of knowledge etc).
Machines have their role, depending on the context of an individual's situation and their goals.

Maybe it's a case of "what works for the individual" as part of a program.

I completely agree, PTs have their place, so do machines and free weights should be the foundation of any resistance program.

 

[chocchillimango]

totally, Darkman

 

[dave]

People don't know what it is like till they actually train the general public. Some work hard, some don't. Some do it because they want to change, some do it because they think they need to but have no real dedication to change. You work with what you have and do the beast with it. If we all got to choose awesome hard working dedicated clients we would but it's not the case in the real world of commercial gyms. It is a sliding scale and results are aligned with it. All but one of my clients gets results but she is at the ass end of the scale, others get some due to me sneaking in effort and what they need and it goes on up to my good clients who kick ass because they just do it.

A football team will show the same sliding scale just at a much higher overall level of progression. A lot of female office workers in their mid 30's to 40's who are overweight(sorry for the generalization but this is the higher % demographic) are usually at the lower end. Once again this is from my experience and a lot of PTh I know who have worked in many different gyms (mainly commercial).

So machines have uses for these lower end people because they feel less daunting. If I could get them onto barbell and DB work I would. Other machines are good for their task as stated earlier and their are other uses like safer working to failure conditions that machines allow for.

The main point it is not a clear cut answer though barbell and DB exercises are GENERALLY a more efficient device especially for strength gains.