Does it matter what fat you eat?

[Jungnaut]

well, kobe beef cows are massaged and fed beer, if thats anything to go by..

Raising Wagyu Cattle in Japan

 

[wingman]

We need to eat beef thats been injected with hormones, saves us having to

 

[Bazza20]

You are also dead wrong about it not being clear that grass is healthier for ruminant animals than grain. You clearly have not read any of the clinical studies on the subject. First of all, its just plain common sense, ruminant animals eat grass in the wild - not grain. Secondly, clinical investigation has proven that grass fed beef have a healthier fatty acid composition

Since you seem to have got google diarrhea I am not going through and answering every point you have cut and pasted but I will go through this one.

You are very wrongly assuming that just because grass is a natural feed that it is always a safe, healthy and the best option for the cow. Wrong. Run a farm and see what happens instead of just googling shit and you will quickly see this.

I have dairy cows so this is where my experience is coming from.

1. Bloat. Cows eating pasture with large percentage of legumes can cause bloat which easily kills cows. I don't see how dead cows can be healthy. Addition of hay and grain into the diet reduces the incidence of bloat

2. Ryegrass staggers. Usually autumn and spring when grass is growing very fast causes the grass to become magnesium deficient. Cows will die very quickly with this. A grain mix balanced to include enough magnesium prevents this.

3. Milk fever. Milk fever is calcium deficiency, can happen a number of ways but the two main ones are feeding grass in the month lead up to calving and eating a calcium deficient diet during peak lactation. Grass often doesn't have enough calcium to support the cows during peak lactation and again yes they will very quickly die from this and again a grain mix balanced for enough calcium will prevent this.

Acidosis. Spring time with grass growing very fast lacks enough fibre for proper digestion causing acidosis. This can cause many long term problems. Prevented by adding fibrous hay to the diet during times of fast spring growth.

So I guess google didn't tell you that. Grass is not always safe and healthy for the animals and yes is can very easily kill them.

Edit: There are also more situations when grass is not the perfect only feed for cows but ill let sucram google these up first.

 

[IRON TANKS]

Invite to Bazza's for some fresh produce?

 

[Undercover]

When it comes time to say goodbye cow and carve her up, do they kill them all the same way? knife to throat when not looking, bullet, gas?

 

[Brick]

When it comes time to say goodbye cow and carve her up, do they kill them all the same way? knife to throat when not looking, bullet, gas?

Imagine a ramset gun with no nail just the piston sticking out the end.

 

[Bazza20]

What fluffy said.


Animal restrained, bolt gun to the head, animal then bled out.

 

[chocchillimango]

Since you seem to have got google diarrhea I am not going through and answering every point you have cut and pasted but I will go through this one.

You are very wrongly assuming that just because grass is a natural feed that it is always a safe, healthy and the best option for the cow. Wrong. Run a farm and see what happens instead of just googling shit and you will quickly see this.

I have dairy cows so this is where my experience is coming from.

1. Bloat. Cows eating pasture with large percentage of legumes can cause bloat which easily kills cows. I don't see how dead cows can be healthy. Addition of hay and grain into the diet reduces the incidence of bloat

2. Ryegrass staggers. Usually autumn and spring when grass is growing very fast causes the grass to become magnesium deficient. Cows will die very quickly with this. A grain mix balanced to include enough magnesium prevents this.

3. Milk fever. Milk fever is calcium deficiency, can happen a number of ways but the two main ones are feeding grass in the month lead up to calving and eating a calcium deficient diet during peak lactation. Grass often doesn't have enough calcium to support the cows during peak lactation and again yes they will very quickly die from this and again a grain mix balanced for enough calcium will prevent this.

Acidosis. Spring time with grass growing very fast lacks enough fibre for proper digestion causing acidosis. This can cause many long term problems. Prevented by adding fibrous hay to the diet during times of fast spring growth.

So I guess google didn't tell you that. Grass is not always safe and healthy for the animals and yes is can very easily kill them.

Edit: There are also more situations when grass is not the perfect only feed for cows but ill let sucram google these up first.

Hey Bazza, be interesting to know how the different grasses affect milk as well.
My rellies have cows in Italy and because they live in the alps, they feed them a mix of stockpiled hay and grain feed in winter (kms of snow cover all round) and only fresh grass in late spring and summer. The milk and all the cheeses etc in summer are the bomb in flavour, so much better, which isn't surprising.
But it would be cool to know what composition changes in the nutrient and macro profiles you get across the seasons.

In fact, back on the original thread topic (lol) .. what changes does it make to fats and fatty acids in the milk, if any?

 

[Bazza20]

Hey Bazza, be interesting to know how the different grasses affect milk as well.
My rellies have cows in Italy and because they live in the alps, they feed them a mix of stockpiled hay and grain feed in winter (kms of snow cover all round) and only fresh grass in late spring and summer. The milk and all the cheeses etc in summer are the bomb in flavour, so much better, which isn't surprising.
But it would be cool to know what composition changes in the nutrient and macro profiles you get across the seasons.

In fact, back on the original thread topic (lol) .. what changes does it make to fats and fatty acids in the milk, if any?

Here we feed grass year round because of our better weather unless we get a drought but we supplement with various amounts of hay and grain through the year to balance the diet for health and more efficient production. Grass is roughly around 70% of the diet but varies from farm to farm.

Yep different combinations of feed and even stages of grass effect the macros of the milk. We get readings for fat and protein as well as milk quality readings for every load of milk we send off. Don't get anything on fatty acids.

It's gets fairly complicated but ill go through some basics.

Generally higher fibre diet increases fat% and lowers protein%. So adding hay to the diet will do this. Also grass through summer will have higher fibre and get the same effect.

Through spring you have very low fibre grass so you get lower fat% and higher protein%.

Feeding more grain adds low fibre energy and will usually lower fat and increase protein% but it can also help increase fat because the starchy carbs that the grain has and the grass is low in helps boost fat percent.

Basically more fibre will increase fat% and energy controls the protein%.

Also when cows are grazing high amounts of clover or Lucerne the high nitrogen content of the legumes can make the milk taste terrible.

It's interesting you say you like the cheese when on grass as I know a lot of the cheese makers in France only allow their farmers to feed dry hay with some grain because it makes better cheese. I personally think the milk tastes better when getting only hay and grain but its probably just due to the higher fat percentages.

 

[chocchillimango]

Here we feed grass year round because of our better weather unless we get a drought but we supplement with various amounts of hay and grain through the year to balance the diet for health and more efficient production. Grass is roughly around 70% of the diet but varies from farm to farm.

Yep different combinations of feed and even stages of grass effect the macros of the milk. We get readings for fat and protein as well as milk quality readings for every load of milk we send off. Don't get anything on fatty acids.

It's gets fairly complicated but ill go through some basics.

Generally higher fibre diet increases fat% and lowers protein%. So adding hay to the diet will do this. Also grass through summer will have higher fibre and get the same effect.

Through spring you have very low fibre grass so you get lower fat% and higher protein%.

Feeding more grain adds low fibre energy and will usually lower fat and increase protein% but it can also help increase fat because the starchy carbs that the grain has and the grass is low in helps boost fat percent.

Basically more fibre will increase fat% and energy controls the protein%.

Also when cows are grazing high amounts of clover or Lucerne the high nitrogen content of the legumes can make the milk taste like terrible.

It's interesting you say you like the cheese when on grass as I know a lot of the cheese makers in France only allow their farmers to feed dry hay with some grain because it makes better cheese. I personally think the milk tastes better when getting only hay and grain but its probably just due to the higher fat percentages.

oh that's interesting...yeah, I'm not sure about harder and more aged cheese. But I swear the ricotta in summer was nothing short of heaven. I must have eaten it at every meal and then some. A friend of the family used to make it on his dairy farm and to have it fresh in summer was amazing. In winter it was great but not in the same league.
Then again, ricotta is made mostly from the whey after making other cheeses so that might explain it?

Interesting with the butter though... I think it's good either way, having had both grass fed and grain/hay fed. Different but both good. More of a tang in the grass fed but it probably depends on the grass and the farm, so ...

 

[Bazza20]

oh that's interesting...yeah, I'm not sure about harder and more aged cheese. But I swear the ricotta in summer was nothing short of heaven. I must have eaten it at every meal and then some. A friend of the family used to make it on his dairy farm and to have it fresh in summer was amazing. In winter it was great but not in the same league.
Then again, ricotta is made mostly from the whey after making other cheeses so that might explain it?

Interesting with the butter though... I think it's good either way, having had both grass fed and grain/hay fed. Different but both good. More of a tang in the grass fed but it probably depends on the grass and the farm, so ...

Yeah and then you can even get into the different variations of certain proteins that different cows can produce which can supposedly influence the cheese produced.

Talking about the tang in milk from grass fed cows. Had a friend around and said they loved milk fresh from a cow. Went and got some, they had a glass and had a concerned look on there face and unconvincingly said yeah it's good and put the glass down. I then realised we had just been grazing the cows on Lucerne and smelt the milk and laughed and explained it too them. Really it's feral if you ever taste it. Almost like a fishy taste in your milk.

 

[Bradders]

Yeah and then you can even get into the different variations of certain proteins that different cows can produce which can supposedly influence the cheese produced.

Talking about the tang in milk from grass fed cows. Had a friend around and said they loved milk fresh from a cow. Went and got some, they had a glass and had a concerned look on there face and unconvincingly said yeah it's good and put the glass down. I then realised we had just been grazing the cows on Lucerne and smelt the milk and laughed and explained it too them. Really it's feral if you ever taste it. Almost like a fishy taste in your milk.

I think my stomach just turned thinking about it..

 

[nazzysmith]

What fluffy said.


Animal restrained, bolt gun to the head, animal then bled out.

Unless its muslim slaughter (Halal)

In which case its a knife to the throat while allahs name is invocated...

In Australia this is Quickly followed by the bolt gun to the head... Whereas overseas I don't think they use the bolt...

 

[chocchillimango]

Yeah and then you can even get into the different variations of certain proteins that different cows can produce which can supposedly influence the cheese produced.

Talking about the tang in milk from grass fed cows. Had a friend around and said they loved milk fresh from a cow. Went and got some, they had a glass and had a concerned look on there face and unconvincingly said yeah it's good and put the glass down. I then realised we had just been grazing the cows on Lucerne and smelt the milk and laughed and explained it too them. Really it's feral if you ever taste it. Almost like a fishy taste in your milk.

Lol yeah my folks always wax lyrical about milk fresh from the cow but I'm guessing you have to co sided what it's been eating first

Made me chuckle

 

[Undercover]

Ouch!!! The Paslode has some kick

 

[Weavel]

My family has been running between 2-3 hundred head of beef cattle for 3 generations. Just outside of Gatton QLD.

If the weather is wet enough they will eat a 90% grass diet. When its dry they may eat up to a 90% hay and corn diet.

99% of our cows once sold go into a 90 day grain fed lot to beef up for slaughter.

I get the pleasure of eating the other 1% freshly slaughtered and no grain in there system, genuine 100% grass fed beef is definately superior than grain fed imo.

 

[wingman]

AusBB excursion to Bazza's farm. Who's in?

 

[kaz]

My uncle has a dairy and beef farms.
That is all.

My last name comes from cows. True story.

 

[judgey]

I've been doing a bit of reading and I'm trying to get on top of this (not the cow-jacking part of this thread, but the original post).

If I am trying to promote an anti-inflammatory state (to help reduce a 'mild'/'moderate' autoimmune issue), are the following points correct:

1. Ratio of O3:06 should be between 1:1 - 1:4 (i.e. the closer to 1:1, the better).
2. Total EHA & DHA should be between 1-2g.
3. Ratio of EHAHA should be ??? [Note: This point I'm not sure about - I saw a post at some stage by someone about this, but I can't remember what the ratio should be other than for anti-inflammatory purposes either EHA or DHA should be higher.]
4. Generally you should consume more monounsaturated fats than polyunsaturated fats to ensure that the balance is in favour of mono's and therefore more anti-inflammatory.

Obviously, some of these points may not be that helpful from a 'bodybuilding' perspective, but I would imagine most people would prefer to be 'anti-inflammatory' to reduce their risk of various health problems (e.g. colitis).

Any comments would be much appreciated.

 

[chocchillimango]

AusBB excursion to Bazza's farm. Who's in?

Do we get to ride in a bus and sing songs on the way???

My last name comes from cows. True story.