Assistance programming

[jj80]

Just interested how you guys typically program in assistance work on your main lifts. If you could give general advice on programming that would be great. I have some questions but as a bit of a noob I'm not sure they're the right ones, so feel free to bypass

Do you mainly focus on your weak points? (e.g. triceps for bench for me)

Do you do them every workout?

Do you only do them when you're doing light days / higher reps of your main exercises?

Do you keep the reps high? (how high and why, if so?)

Thanks. If you could be specific with your rep ranges that'd be good, 'high reps' means different things to different people.

 

[Bench Polkov]

Just interested how you guys typically program in assistance work on your main lifts. If you could give general advice on programming that would be great. I have some questions but as a bit of a noob I'm not sure they're the right ones, so feel free to bypass

Do you mainly focus on your weak points? (e.g. triceps for bench for me) Often yes, either reinforce main lift movement patterns or focus on weak points.

Do you do them every workout? Yes, unless I'm short on time. Assistance work is probably more important than the main lifts in making you stronger.

Do you only do them when you're doing light days / higher reps of your main exercises? No. See above.

Do you keep the reps high? (how high and why, if so?) They vary from low to high (3-20) reps depending on my energy levels and needs. 20 reppers are rare but I do them occasionally to prove mental strength.

Thanks. If you could be specific with your rep ranges that'd be good, 'high reps' means different things to different people.

 

[Christian]

Its about changing it up...

For me if your doing strength based work as a main lift then accessory is a time to fill in the blanks and get some extra blood flow and growth. So for me at the moment what is working well is 5x15 for most assistance work. That is after my strength work.

I try to keep it basic 2-3 assistance exercises per main lift and maybe one fluffy thing that never gets done.

Thing is consistency...

 

[0ni]

If you're a raw lifter then you don't really have "weak points" you're either strong enough to lift the weight or you're not. The lifts really do build themselves no matter what multi-ply lifters try to get you to believe...
From looking at your sig you seem like you have pretty strong lats so I would focus on getting your triceps bigger and stronger to help your bench. So that's as simple as close grip benching (strength) and pushdowns (hypertrophy)

If you're looking for programming and want to keep it simple, find your close grip max and do the 5/3/1 programming for it after you bench. For pushdowns just pick a weight and get 100 total reps in really...

btw my bench is shit-tier this is just what I have noticed other people do. 5/3/1 for assistance was recommended by Chad Wesley-Smith and he goes into it in far more detail in his book "The Juggernaut Method". At the moment I do pushdowns most days with bands before I go to bed and it is giving me triceps hypertrophy although my bench remains the same so I obviously need to rethink some things in my own training...

 

[NAPARM]

I think assistance work is often overrated. If you want to get good at a lift then do the lift, pretty simple.
Assistance work has its place but it is just that... 'assistance'.

 

[Bazza20]

For me the best assistance lifts and the ones most similar to the lift I want to get better at. Eg GHRs do stuff all for my deadlift but SLDLs are awesome.

I usually like to do higher reps for assistance but not always. I also like to train the assistance hard and try and set PBs each time I do them.

 

[LoxtonA01]

I start most my workouts with the compound exercises so you get the overall lift included mass target muscle and stabilising muscle, but nearing the end of my workouts I always do some isolation training of all muscles used, including stabilising muscles.
For me, that brings out your maximum lift and growth potential.

 

[Christian]

I think assistance work is often overrated. If you want to get good at a lift then do the lift, pretty simple.
Assistance work has its place but it is just that... 'assistance'.

I disagree assistance work can 've anything. Just because it isbt a main lift doesn't mean it's any less important in regards to achieving your goals. There are many factors that come into it.

Personally if my assistance work is going well it makes all the difference.

 

[LoxtonA01]

^^ This guy speaks copious amounts of truth.
Having that extra strength can give your main lifts a sharper edge, so to say...

 

[Bench Polkov]

I think assistance work is often overrated. If you want to get good at a lift then do the lift, pretty simple.
Assistance work has its place but it is just that... 'assistance'.

I think assistance work is over-thought, not over-rated. Though we may need to be clearer on our definitions of assistance. I include squat volume as assistance for squats, and the same for bench, etc.

I've had many training cycles not live up to their potential due to my inability to stick to my assistance template enough.

 

[jzpowahz]

Do you mainly focus on your weak points? (e.g. triceps for bench for me)If I know what they are e.g. from the floor in deadlift.

Do you do them every workout?Yes. (except during Smolov as everyone said not to & I was generally dead)

Do you only do them when you're doing light days / higher reps of your main exercises?All the time except Smolov

Do you keep the reps high? (how high and why, if so?)generally 3-4 sets of 8-12 for me. Always trying to add a rep or weight if I have reached upper rep range

 

[NAPARM]

I think assistance work is over-thought, not over-rated. Though we may need to be clearer on our definitions of assistance. I include squat volume as assistance for squats, and the same for bench, etc.

I've had many training cycles not live up to their potential due to my inability to stick to my assistance template enough.

When I talk assistance I mean other actual exercises not volume mate.
Ie. leg press, lunges etc for squats & dips, shill crushers etc for bench.
Personally I don't feel assistance exercises are that important, that's just my opinion but.
To the other guys who say they are have you noticed how programs like Sheiko work so well with little in the way of assistance exercises?

 

[0ni]

Sheiko uses a fair bit of "assistance" if you define it as non-competition exercises. Paused squats, close grip benching, deadlifts with a pause at the knee, lots of chest flies etc.

I think defining "assistance" is so hard and fucking pointless though. I wrote this on fitocracy and paraposting here:

The assistance work in Westside is just to push up your muscular base. It doesn't make or break the program at all, it just builds muscle. Many people get great results just pushing the main two lifts for the day each session

I guess it boils down to what you describe as "assistance", where you draw the line. Is a downset considered assistance? If not why not a few light sets of 10 with the same exercise, is that assistance? If not then why simply picking up a different instrument and doing the exact same sets and reps, even an exercise that you would do as a main movement normally, is that "assistance"?

What matters is the training system and philosophy you believe in and sticking with it. If you switched your accessory pressing to incline or decline or a different bar or pushdowns or dropped it altogether then I highly doubt that it would make that much of a difference in the long run than that of the training system. Which is why worrying about "assistance" is silly and majoring in the minors. Find your training system and philosophy and stick with it. The rest is ancillary and doesn't matter - just as long as it fits your goals and something you like doing

 

[Bench Polkov]

When I talk assistance I mean other actual exercises not volume mate.
Ie. leg press, lunges etc for squats & dips, shill crushers etc for bench.
Personally I don't feel assistance exercises are that important, that's just my opinion but.
To the other guys who say they are have you noticed how programs like Sheiko work so well with little in the way of assistance exercises?

I still consider assistance fairly important, especially in terms of upper back work. I had a comp cycle where I neglected my upper back work due to time constraints and my squats were quite obviously affected by it when I kept on losing my upper back tightness. The same goes for bench and deads IMO. Abs are another muscle which can sometimes be affected by neglect.

 

[NAPARM]

I still consider assistance fairly important, especially in terms of upper back work. I had a comp cycle where I neglected my upper back work due to time constraints and my squats were quite obviously affected by it when I kept on losing my upper back tightness. The same goes for bench and deads IMO. Abs are another muscle which can sometimes be affected by neglect.

Yeah each to their own I guess, I've gotten some of my best results when I've done little to no assistance stuff. Upper back work is the most important imo, so I agree with you there.

 

[niin0s]

i think assistance should be programmed around your weak points but more so in keeping you healthy in the long term.. meaning lots of upper back work, glute work etc, stuff to keep you lifting for a long time without getting injured in the main lifts

 

[The Hamburgler]

If you're a raw lifter then you don't really have "weak points" you're either strong enough to lift the weight or you're not. The lifts really do build themselves no matter what multi-ply lifters try to get you to believe...
From looking at your sig you seem like you have pretty strong lats so I would focus on getting your triceps bigger and stronger to help your bench. So that's as simple as close grip benching (strength) and pushdowns (hypertrophy)

If you're looking for programming and want to keep it simple, find your close grip max and do the 5/3/1 programming for it after you bench. For pushdowns just pick a weight and get 100 total reps in really...

btw my bench is shit-tier this is just what I have noticed other people do. 5/3/1 for assistance was recommended by Chad Wesley-Smith and he goes into it in far more detail in his book "The Juggernaut Method". At the moment I do pushdowns most days with bands before I go to bed and it is giving me triceps hypertrophy although my bench remains the same so I obviously need to rethink some things in my own training...

The bolded kinda contradicts itself lol

 

[0ni]

The bolded kinda contradicts itself lol

Yeah, it's not really a "weak point" though because it never gets corrected as such. A raw lifter will always just need to keep building the same areas, they will always be weak at the same area. It's not as if they are weak at the bottom of the lift so they do loads of lat work and then the sticking point changes to the middle so they do loads of delt work... it doesn't happen like that lol. You either generate enough force to complete the lift or you do not. You fail at the same point every single time!!

Maybe I didn't write it clear enough the first time but you don't have a "weak point" that needs targetting, lat and tricep strength are just an important part of getting stronger as a whole

 

[Christian]

Everyone is sort of right..

Get stronger you get stronger... I.e getting stronger at bench press will help your raw bench press.. However adding in pec work and anterior deltoid work will help develop speed off the chest.

So you are helping the lift without doing the lift.

Lockout might be a problem then, Or stability unracking in shoulders ect.

HOWEVER!

These are things you will be more concerned about when you are a more advanced lifter. Then these things come into play.


So everybody is technically right.

 

[0ni]

Ok I think I understand how to put what I am thinking down onto paper now...

For example your bench is lagging... You need to do triceps work. It's not that you need stronger triceps, strengthening your triceps will not improve your bench. Strengthening your bench improves your bench. If strengthening your triceps worked then you could just do singles with 10% of your bench each day to keep the groove and pushdown your way to an epic bench. What your assistance needs to do is hypertrophy the muscles involved to raise your strength ceiling so that your BENCH PRESS strength increases (not triceps strength).

The close grip work doesn't make your TRICEPS stronger so much as making your BENCH stronger. It increases the range of motion and changes the leverage of the exercise. Perhaps someone who is better at explaining things can have a go lol.

So when I say that his lats are fine and he should focus on his triceps, it's not his "weakness" as triceps strength has nothing to do with it. However hypertrophy of the muscle will increase the strength ceiling and allow your bench press strength to increase

I hope I explained this well. inb4 someone misses the boat entirely

"If you can 3-board press 10 more pounds than you can bench press, then you don’t have a “lock out” problem. You just missed a certain weight because you weren’t strong enough to generate the power needed to move that particular weight through the transition point in the movement."