10-15kg possible by january?

[Zarkov]

Looking forward to hearing Shorty`s results.

 

[trofius]

notbignuf,....is anyone?

Anyways I had a similar starting weight to you about 63kg, and i am also 172cm tall

I also thought i was eating heaps , and have dramas getting enought food while at work, I still do, you need to cook up decent meals teh day before, and put them in the fridge at work, for your break, if your meal has enough protein and fat it will keep you satisfied for longer, chips, and softdrink etc you will be starving again ina 30minutes.

I noticed that once I started eating a bigger breakfast, or two breakfasts it helpd heaps, I usually only have my shakes before a workout, there are heaps of shake ideas in the food section. Usually i try to eats as soon as i can after a workout, or buy a protein popper from the gym if it will be more than 30minutes before i get food.

As others have stated eating heaps of nutrient rich foods, is essential for us skinny buggers to gain weight, If i dont eat right for 2-3 days I will loose kgs.

The other thing I have started to do is incorporate more compound exercises, into my routine which is still far from perfect, and have been told so several times, I am almost doing full body workouts, on some days. But not intense enough yet. Since I have started to do squats, deadd, pullups, and military presses, my weight has jumped by 2-3kg in the last 3-4months, my strength in these exercises had also increased, and is now a focus of mine, as I was, and too an extent probably still am a bit one sided.

Set your self goals for your lifts, so that you may acheive them within a short time, even if it is just "next week I will lift more than this week". You have a training partner this will help heaps, as you can compete and encourage each other.

I have not fully embraced a full body workout yet, and still struggle with food at times, And I understand that this is holding me back, I will get there, knowing what to do is the first step, implementing it, and sticking it out for the long term, is how you will get the results you want..

Dont take anyone comments to harshly, they all mean well, and really want to help, listen to them and adapt..or you WILL stay how you are.

Best of luck, maybe start a traing journal this will keep you honest, and allow others to fine tune your efforts.

 

[Fadi]

Have a look back at what I said. I said that 1RM is a poor basis for beginners, because we don't know their 1RM. They're still learning the movement....

For beginners, we can just go on effort. Get in, learn the lifts, lift as heavy as you can, learn to listen to your body, go home, eat and rest.

Kyle, you seem to be acknowledging the fact that the 1RM has its place, but you also sound like you're limiting that place to athletes who have passed what you have described as the beginner's phase. Let me make it clear from the outset that I’m not here to persuade you or anyone else one way or the other. I’m merely stating what I’m convinced works, and works perfectly.

What I'm saying and what all the professional coaches who base their knowledge on the pioneer of the theory of periodisation: Dr. Tudor O. Bompa. PhD, is that from beginners to elites, there are phases of training that these athletes would have to go through to insure maximum results are achieved whilst minimising injury.

One of the first phases to any program (any) is what is called the anatomical adaptation phase. This phase which lasts for between 6 to 12 weeks, depending on the level of the athlete, serves to activate all of the muscles, ligaments, and tendons in the body so as to insure the athlete is well equipped for the loading phases that are to come. A 1RM is used here also.

Disregard what I've written above for a moment; I would most certainly use the 1RM on a beginner just for the motivational and positive psychological effect it would have on that "new" trainee. You and I both know that a new trainee's strength improves very quickly as you yourself have admitted. I say why then don't we take full advantage of that knowledge and implement it on our new trainee. Can you imagine the positive feeling this new athlete would experience seeing his 1RM improves beyond his/her wildest dreams as his/her neuromuscular pathways gradually adapt to the new activity! Whether we use the easy leg press or the hard d/bell bench press, we both know that there will be sharp improvements.

This is my humble opinion on the issue of using the 1RM to my advantage as a teacher. I am (if you haven't noticed already) a very strong proponent of the psychological aspect to training irrespective of what it is. It’s in my hand to fully motivate the “client” and facilitate the way forward. That’s my belief.

Fadi.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I would most certainly use the 1RM on a beginner just for the motivational and positive psychological effect it would have on that "new" trainee.

The psychology of it is just why I wouldn't use it. There are three reasons for this. But first, you've said where you're seeing things from: from the perspective of professional coaches. Let me explain where I'm seeing things from. I should have mentioned this before, I apologise for being unclear.

My perspective is that of an instructor in a mainstream gym, which is where most people train, and where I'll most likely be first employed. This combines with my philosophy that the best workout is the one you stick to.

You're speaking about the perspective of professional coaches. But most trainees don't have professional coaches. Someone gives them a workout programme and then sends them off to do it on their own. There are things which work very well when a professional coach is supervising every rep; those things don't work so well when the trainee is largely on their own.

My focus here is on getting people through the first three months; many studies and much experience shows that it takes about 90 days to establish a new habit in a person's lifestyle, whether a good habit like physical training or a bad habit like smoking. If they last 90 days, they've a very good chance of lasting years.

90% get discouraged in those first 90 days and quit. Some people have noted that "standard business practice is to fail in the first 18 months." Well, standard weight training practice is to fail in the first 3 months.

So we need to adjust our approach so that the person can have steady progress, which encourages them to continue even without anyone there to push or advise them.

Okay, so that's where I'm coming from. Now the three reasons might make more sense.

The first is that a beginner's performance - in lifting, in skills in a job, in school, whatever - is inconsistent. They may lift 40kg today but only be able to manage 35kg tomorrow. That's because of what you've mentioned, that in the beginning they're not using their muscles to their full potential, the adaptations are neural rather than muscular. So their performance is very up and down. If we push them to their limits today, if they don't manage it tomorrow they'll become discouraged.

Now, if we see them make 10x 30kg easily, we know that next time they can do at least 8x 32.5kg easily, if not 10. If we stay within their limits, they'll see steady progress, which will encourage them.

Developing further this "better steady progress" idea we come to the second which is that - again because of the neural rather than muscular adaptation happening - trainees' performances can leap forward very quickly... and then stop for a bit. Perhaps someone can bench 20kg in their first week, and then in week 4 they do 10x 45kg easily, they could do as much as 1x 55kg... but then not add a single kilogram or rep until week 8. Wouldn't it be better to have them adding 2.5kg each week, than have them add 10kg and then nothing for four weeks? Which would encourage them more?

Lastly, to discover their 1RM, we must at some time have them train to failure. In discovering that they can make 57.5kg they may also fail at 60kg. Now, some people will focus on the success at 57.5kg, but other people may focus on the failure at 60kg. Who will focus on the failure? People who have a history of poor performance in physical pursuits - that is, the people who most need training.

This comes back to what you've so often said about not training to failure, always leaving "one in the tank." It's very common for personal trainers to push their clients to failure on sets. So the client finishes the session remembering that they failed on several sets, and is discouraged.

Again, if Fadi or Markos or (from my PT school) Soviet Boxer were there to supervise every rep, then there are some fantastic techniques which would work well. These are techniques I hope to use if I become a personal trainer - as opposed to a simple gym instructor. But as a gym instructor in a mainstream gym, I'll be limited in what I can do for each trainee. So I have to try an approach which will let them have steady and small progress, to encourage them to keep it up, because the best workout is the one you stick to.

 

[trofius]

Damm this is getting deep, but i beleive you are both correct. To me you are looking at it a bit different... I am seeing it as I beleive your training should bbe, and how I personaly train.

fadi states that a 1x max is a good tool, I agree. You can work out your working weights from this. It is also very good at breaking that initial barrier, when pushed almost everyone can do more than they beleive they can.. This would be a good encouragment. It also helps to set period goals..Ie an every month target which is what i look at doing.

I dont think pushing a new client to max every session is a good idea, because yes it will change everyweek, and may lead to an inconsistanty training situation, or as kyle states disapointment that they didnt get that 1x max every time.

The trainee needs to be shown Ok right now you can do this, much, we are going to design a workout for you so that in a months time you can try to better this amount.

each week they will train at ~80% of starting max, increasing the reps, each set and the weights if they get to a set number of reps, in a set. This would allow a gradual build up of strength. It would also set a weekly goal for the trainee,..more reps, and I can go up some weight if i get there...Then after a month test there 1x max, it will have improved, Trainee goes wow it works, and tries harder next month..

The trainee needs to know that going for max is not going to give them desent goals, and a structured training program will ensure gains. Going for max or failing as has been discussed may actually send you backwards..like most things education is vital.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I really do want to emphasise that there is a big difference between a professional coach and athlete, or strength trainer and client, and the situation in mainstream gyms.

One is almost constant supervision, the other is, "here you go, go workout, come back for reassessment in one month."

Now, we can definitely say the one method is better than the other, no doubt about that. But mainstream gyms are what they are, and that's where most trainees are, so we have to make the best of it.

Though I reckon I can do better than most gym instructors do, sitting in their office playing Solitaire on their computers.

 

[CaT_SPeW]

i thought this thread was about gaining weight fast?

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Yeah but we answered that already. Threads drift

On topic, er... um... you gain weight faster with a competent trainer!

Happy?

 

[PTC]

Fadi is spot on. After 4 weeks of consistent training, I allow my lifters to attempt a 1RM.

Way , way too much emphasis on supervision and coaches etc lol

Not everyone that lifts in a commercial gym is a soft cock. I spent from 1980 to 1992 lifting in them, attempted thousands of 1RM attempts, never had a trainer, proffesional coach or supervisor, but I do have 2 testicles.

This babying people to get them through goes against the grain with me.

Throw the fat lazy ****s in the deep end, if they walk after 1 session, 99% sure they would walk the moment training gets hard and effective.

I dont need a book to prove this, I'll just call on experience.

Some lifters have really surprised me, not given a chance by their friends. Emmas friends still shake their head when they see her squat 80kg for reps or press 40kg x 5 overhead. They were positive she wouldnt do a second session. She couldnt wipe her ass after first.

Time is too precious to waste IMO.

Oh, weight gain, drink milk and squat.

 

[CaT_SPeW]

Yeah but we answered that already. Threads drift

On topic, er... um... you gain weight faster with a competent trainer!

Happy?

very well then, carry on.

 

[Fadi]

I can see everyone's point of view; I really can. Mick was right when he said that I was not expecting anyone to give me a 1RM on a daily or weekly basis (my mind works in periodisation mode all the time), but rather on say once a month after a completion of a macrocycle (basically what Markos has said). You always have to evaluate where you're at so you can build upon it and prepare for the next phase.

Now coming to you Kyle, you've made some superb points and made many things clearer for me which I thank you for. I was (and probably wrong for doing so), imagining you as being always that one on one type of trainer. Not the one that writes a program then say see me in a month Jack! So from that point of view, I may have been wrong.

So I think we're all one on this: BEAR HUG NOW!


Fadi.

 

[PTC]

Further on, start with shit training ideas, baby them for 90 days, once they actually train, they leave and go elsewhere to do "Kyles 90 day shit training introductory program"

Who has 90 days to WASTE on someone that in the long run is going to quit anyway.

The keepers dont leave, no matter how hard you push them.

I know you try and say the right things Kyle, and the soft cocks nod and agree with you, but you can have them. At least your keeping them out of gyms.

Most of you are going to think my comments are those of a militant arrogant prick. You couldnt be more wrong.

I love people that love to train. I've lost count on how many Nina and I have picked up from Frankston station, Tullamarine and Avalon airport. I allow strangers to stay at my house. If your willing to train at PTC, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get you there.

The soft cocks can gather around my newsletters and whisper nasty things about me lol

Kyle, your going to be responsible for another generation of soft cocks clogging our Power racks, can you live with that? lol

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Now coming to you Kyle, you've made some superb points and made many things clearer for me which I thank you for. I was (and probably wrong for doing so), imagining you as being always that one on one type of trainer. Not the one that writes a program then say see me in a month Jack! So from that point of view, I may have been wrong

Well, I would prefer to be a one-on-one trainer, and that is why I intend to do Cert IV after Cert III. However, regardless of Certs, it'll depend where I'm employed, what their policies are, and what my hours are.

Many trainers spend a lot of time sitting in the office playing Solitaire on the computer or ringing up their mates. I would instead be out on the floor talking to and help out trainees. If it's someone I gave a workout programme to, then I'll give them particular attention. But if I'm just doing (say) 20 hours a week at the place and the gym is open 100 hours, I may not often see those people.

There is what I wish for, and then there is the reality of day-to-day life in a gym. Of course I'll try to bring the two together, but it's not always quick and easy.

Kyle, your going to be responsible for another generation of soft cocks clogging our Power racks, can you live with that? lol

I don't think so, mate. For one thing, if they're squatting at all then they're harder than they were without me.

The other day with my training partner several guys came to have a look, asked what we were doing, I couldn't get one to give even 10 reps with the bar a go. "Oh I have this knee thing... my shoulder... my back..." The knees didn't hinder them on the stepper, their shoulder didn't stop them benching, their back didn't stop them swinging back and forth while doing bicep curls. Funny, that.

Were I an actual instructor giving out programmes, things could be a bit different. I could at least get them to give it a go for a few sessions.

Things aren't that black and white. People aren't either tough or complete softies. Lots are in the middle, if you encourage them a bit they become tougher. And I've met Markos, so I know he knows this, that's what he does - push people along, bring out the tough in them.

I'll just be trying to do it in a mainstream gym instead of my own garage. That means I have to make a few compromises. If I tell people, "alright, bye then," the gym management will get upset with me. It has to be a sneaky approach, getting them to workout old style without realising it, getting the women to lift heavy while telling them it's actually light, etc.

Fadi, there's no Army sergeant style in Markos' coaching. Believe me, I know that style of instruction. That ain't him. No yelling or abuse, just teasing and encouraging the best efforts from people. For example, when I started doing the Tabata thrusters I was tired already, had had a 32km bike ride and done some kettlebell deadlifts - I'd done some overhead presses, but they weren't very taxing. So about the third set in I said, "ah, this is too hard, I'm stopping."

From behind me came Markos' voice, quiet and friendly but firm, "No, keep going, you've got a rest soon, keep going." And I did.

He's not the hard bastard that he likes to present online. The main difference here is that I'm willing to compromise a bit with a mainstream gym, he's been through all that and had enough and set up his own.

But hey, after 20 years of compromising I'll probably have had enough, too

 

[Zarkov]

Most of you are going to think my comments are those of a militant arrogant prick. You couldnt be more wrong.

I`ve criticized a few things you`ve said before Markos so if anyone would think that it would be me.HOWEVER not this time.That is exactly the way I think and couldn`t agree with you more.

 

[PTC]

I cant stand ranting, screaming and raving.

If somebody needs that to make them lift a weight, they really dont want to be there, and I dont want them there.

Kyle was right, he was going to quit, I know people hate themselves after they quit, and Kyle kept going, after a quiet word from me.

Knowing he can now do it will ensure that quitting wont enter his mind again.

as I have stated, I enpower people, not dominate them. They have ownership of there programs....and therefore their results.

I simply have no soft options at PTC

 

[NotBigNuf]

back to my part of the threa,, just letting use know im still doing the same wieghts as last week, but i am able to do 10 reps of everything without any mayjor struggle and am thinking of jupping up a bit of wieght say 2.5 kg on most things after the end of this week... is this the rite time to add wieght or should i just continue at th wieghts im doing?

 

[Kyle Aaron]

If you think you can add weight, add weight. Why not? Worst thing that happens, you can't lift it even once, so you swear, put it down, drop the weights down again

Obviously use a spotter if you want to jump a lot...

 

[trofius]

If you are doing sets of 10, then you could easily increase the weight by 10%, and still be doing sets of 6., if you can stil push out 10 up it again.

 

[NotBigNuf]

awsome, was speaking to 2-3 personal trainers at my gym and they were saying the both programs that i was doing are both fine, however all 3 recomend splitting up the body parts over days, not compound,, i always said that i was trying to get bigger/add wieght.

 

[NPR]

Forget what they are telling you. Do the program I gave you. If you get through the sets and reps add 2.5kg next time, drink lots of milk.

I've gone from 78kg to 110kg, this program combined with milk was what put size/weight/strength on me he fastest.