Need advice on training program! BEGINNER!!

[Bigman]

We are not talking about magical PL numbers, we are talking a basic beginner level of strength, these are not big numbers, 100/140/180, anyone playing with weights should be able to achieve these within their first 12 months of training. No matter if training for strength or Body building, we all lift weights and progressively over load. It's impossible to be training 'seriously' for a year or more and not naturally achieve these basic numbers as part of the process no matter what your aim in training.

If someone has been training for a year or more and allegedly has been serious and they have not hit these numbers I would question what they have been doing in the gym during that time. Buti know one thing it's not serious training and progressive overload.

Lets put it like this then, if someone has been training for a year and totally focused themself on bodybuilding, training like a bodybuilder, eating like a bodybuilder, entered a comp and won the comp but his numbers are for example say 100/130/170, does this still make him a beginner? why do those numbers make someone a beginner or not? I guess thats what we are getting at. Some/alot of bodybuilders will never max out so how will they ever know if they are at a beginner level or not? If someone has been training for 6 months, has not progressed much inregards to size but there numbers have finally hit 100/140/180 does that now make them not a beginner bodybuilder? I guess the point being is yes its great to have a base of strength but in the overall big picture as a bodybuilder it does not matter if your numbers are 200/300/280 or 100/130/160 its how you look on stage or in the mirror that is the end goal for bodybuilders.

 

[DREADLIFT]

That's OG Ovaltine.

My point didn't concern chocolaty drinks, rather the "Father" of progressive resistance, Milos of Croton.

And regarding the steady generational decline of testosterone in men over the recent years, it could be assumed that during his period, his testosterone levels could be assumed to be astronomically much greater than the average man today, giving greater strength and muscle mass, making the feat of actually carrying a calf through infancy to full grown adulthood slightly possible, but thats just speculation and im just waffling.

 

[nazzysmith]

A body builder doing 3 sets of 10 at 100kg on his chest....Is theoretically going to have a bigger chest then if they can only manage 3 sets of 10 at 60kg

This is where things go wrong.

Both methods biuld strength if the exercise is progressive

Gidday Andy...

I completely agree with you... My above example assumes weight lifted by the same person with the same genetics limitations...

I should have framed my comment as " a body builder who progresses there bench press from 60kg to 100kg etc etc...."

my bad

 

[Big Mick]

Lets put it like this then, if someone has been training for a year and totally focused themself on bodybuilding, training like a bodybuilder, eating like a bodybuilder, entered a comp and won the comp but his numbers are for example say 100/130/170, does this still make him a beginner? why do those numbers make someone a beginner or not? I guess thats what we are getting at. Some/alot of bodybuilders will never max out so how will they ever know if they are at a beginner level or not? If someone has been training for 6 months, has not progressed much inregards to size but there numbers have finally hit 100/140/180 does that now make them not a beginner bodybuilder? I guess the point being is yes its great to have a base of strength but in the overall big picture as a bodybuilder it does not matter if your numbers are 200/300/280 or 100/130/160 its how you look on stage or in the mirror that is the end goal for bodybuilders.

Strength wise he certainly would be a beginner, no question about it, as the numbers can not be cheated, it's a true and tangible measure of strength (or lack of strength) that can not disputed.

Body building wise he will be what ever he is I guess, it's subjective on weather people think he looks good or not

 

[nazzysmith]

I guess the point being is yes its great to have a base of strength but in the overall big picture as a bodybuilder it does not matter if your numbers are 200/300/280 or 100/130/160 its how you look on stage or in the mirror that is the end goal for bodybuilders.

If you hit numbers like 200/300/280... And then diet down under 10%...

I would think your gonna looking pretty freaking awesome....

 

[Bazza20]

Ok a bodybuilder won't necessarily be maxing out but they should be repping those numbers in a year or two of training anyway.

 

[Sticky]

Lets put it like this then, if someone has been training for a year and totally focused themself on bodybuilding, training like a bodybuilder, eating like a bodybuilder, entered a comp and won the comp but his numbers are for example say 100/130/170, does this still make him a beginner? why do those numbers make someone a beginner or not? I guess thats what we are getting at. Some/alot of bodybuilders will never max out so how will they ever know if they are at a beginner level or not? If someone has been training for 6 months, has not progressed much inregards to size but there numbers have finally hit 100/140/180 does that now make them not a beginner bodybuilder? I guess the point being is yes its great to have a base of strength but in the overall big picture as a bodybuilder it does not matter if your numbers are 200/300/280 or 100/130/160 its how you look on stage or in the mirror that is the end goal for bodybuilders.

Im yet to meet a weak BODYBUILDER. I have met plenty of 70kg he-women with a 6 pack though.
Here are just 2 guys that I have trained with...

Jason Durbridge.
Won open mens powelifting nationals 2 or 3 years running.
Squats 300kg raw, benches 200kg, and deadlifts 342.5.
Stepped on stage at the NABBA qlds last year, and killed everyone.




Dewayne Heal.
Trains as a BB.
Just won the 2012 Mr australasia, jnr devision.
Squats 200x5
benches 152.5 x1
deadlift 220x8 and 260x1




If you want to be a BODYBUILDER, your going to go more than 140/100/180.
If you want to weigh as much as an average female, but have abs, keep doing what your doing.

Please dont try and argue common sense because your small and weak.

 

[Bella]

Strength wise he certainly would be a beginner, no question about it, as the numbers can not be cheated, it's a true and tangible measure of strength that can not disputed.

Body building wise he will be what ever he is I guess, it's subjective on weather people think he looks good or not

Correct. And a bb'ers focus, traditionally, is not on being the strongest. It's on being conditioned, symmetrical and completely aesthetic. Sure it's a subjective business. But alot of them don't see the point in lifting heavy shit and being fat. Or lifting heavy shit and being skinny either.

Everything is subjective Mick. And a personal journey.

The numbers are relevant for PL'ers maybe, to set benchmarks and better themselves. Not so relevant for bb'ers.

 

[Bigman]

Strength wise he certainly would be a beginner, no question about it, as the numbers can not be cheated, it's a true and tangible measure of strength that can not disputed.

Body building wise he will be what ever he is I guess, it's subjective on weather people think he looks good or not

And my last question would be, was the OP's question regarding increasing strength or becoming more pleasing to the eye and focusing on a more pleasing and aesthetic look? And the answers posted should of reflected this.

 

[Bigman]

Im yet to meet a weak BODYBUILDER. I have met plenty of 70kg he-women with a 6 pack though.
Here are just 2 guys that I have trained with...

Jason Durbridge.
Won open mens powelifting nationals 2 or 3 years running.
Squats 300kg raw, benches 200kg, and deadlifts 342.5.
Stepped on stage at the NABBA qlds last year, and killed everyone.

View attachment 3100


Dewayne Heal.
Trains as a BB.
Just won the 2012 Mr australasia, jnr devision.
Squats 200x5
benches 152.5 x1
deadlift 220x8 and 260x1

View attachment 3101


If you want to be a BODYBUILDER, your going to go more than 140/100/180.
If you want to weigh as much as an average female, but have abs, keep doing what your doing.

Please dont try and argue common sense because your small and weak.

Sticky, I understand this whole heartly and no bodybuilder should be "weak" but in bodybuilding numbers dont matter as I stated if they have a totall of 300/200/280 or 170/120/180 overall it wouldnt matter. It simply depends on what they look like on stage. Wouldnt you agree? In bodybuilding terms we are talking?

 

[Goosey]

It been a good discussion, whether we've learnt something/anything reflects how we treat each other in the future.

 

[Sticky]

Sticky, I understand this whole heartly and no bodybuilder should be "weak" but in bodybuilding numbers dont matter as I stated if they have a totall of 300/200/280 or 170/120/180 overall it wouldnt matter. It simply depends on what they look like on stage. Wouldnt you agree? In bodybuilding terms we are talking?

How can you possibly ask that after what I just posted.?!?!?!?

Ok. lets take 2 100kg guys. Both 10%, both train exactly the same.

Guy 1 benches 80x10, squats 110 x10, and dealifts 145 x10

Guy 2 benches 150 x10, squat 240x10, dealifts 280x10

Which guys will be bigger?

 

[Big Mick]

Sticky, I understand this whole heartly and no bodybuilder should be "weak" but in bodybuilding numbers dont matter as I stated if they have a totall of 300/200/280 or 170/120/180 overall it wouldnt matter. It simply depends on what they look like on stage. Wouldnt you agree? In bodybuilding terms we are talking?

On stage the number would not matter but you still need to lift weights to even be considered for getting on stage, and unless you have some strength about you, you will never build thick well filled out muscle.

 

[Goosey]

Sticky, I understand this whole heartly and no bodybuilder should be "weak" but in bodybuilding numbers dont matter as I stated if they have a totall of 300/200/280 or 170/120/180 overall it wouldnt matter. It simply depends on what they look like on stage. Wouldnt you agree? In bodybuilding terms we are talking?

You are correct, they work towards an ideal," if I look good then I am".

 

[nazzysmith]

How can you possibly ask that after what I just posted.?!?!?!?

Ok. lets take 2 100kg guys. Both 10%, both train exactly the same.

Guy 1 benches 80x10, squats 110 x10, and dealifts 145 x10

Guy 2 benches 150 x10, squat 240x10, dealifts 280x10

Which guys will be bigger?

Guy 2 will be a beast...

 

[Sticky]

Are you sure Nazzy?

remember, bodbuilders dont need to worry about numbers....

 

[Goosey]

I'm out before the handbag brigade arrive.

Thanks it was an interesting discussion.

 

[Bigman]

How can you possibly ask that after what I just posted.?!?!?!?

Ok. lets take 2 100kg guys. Both 10%, both train exactly the same.

Guy 1 benches 80x10, squats 110 x10, and dealifts 145 x10

Guy 2 benches 150 x10, squat 240x10, dealifts 280x10

Which guys will be bigger?

I would have to judge by the way they look, if they are both 100kg and both at 10% bf and Iam guessing both the same heigh then I would have to presume they would be around the same size, so it makes the numbers irrelevant.

I have seen u80kg bodybuilders squatting 150 x 10 and o100kg bodybuilders squatting 120 x 10 but the o100kg bodybuilder is 20kgs heavier in muscle mass. Numbers are totally irrelevant in bodybuilding and totally subjective to the individual at hand.

As I said it is good to have a base of strength for a bodybuilder to progress but that base strength is as I said above totally subjective to the individual at hand. A powerlifter more so has to base that base strength on numbers i.e a 100kg powerlifter will not want to have a base strength of 120/100/160 - as a powerlifter your numbers reflect your training, as a bodybuilder your look reflects your training.

 

[DREADLIFT]

Depends how much Nitro-core the o100 bodybuilder has been using.

It can pack on 73% more muscle than whey protein alone did you know.

 

[Sticky]

I would have to judge by the way they look, if they are both 100kg and both at 10% bf and Iam guessing both the same heigh then I would have to presume they would be around the same size, so it makes the numbers irrelevant.

100% completely disagree, but thats ok.

If it were the same person, I cant see how you can think that the stronger guy wouldn't be bigger.

All the best with your training mate.