When does sleep and rest become more important than training?

[katie]

I'm currently in week 6 of a 12 week program - doing weights to improve my strength, and cardio (running) because I love it and have set myself some fun run challenges (eg. 14km City to Surf < 100 mins)

Anyway for Weeks 1 - 4 I was doing 6 days of exercise per week. Generally:
Personal training 2x per week
bodyweight/crossfit exercises 1x per week
rockclimbing 2x per week
basketball 1x per week
running 2x per week

Yes I know the above adds up to more than 6 sessions of exercise per week - sometimes I would double up eg. bodyweight exercises and running on the same day, or basketball and rockclimbing on the same day. Basically I was doing about 8 sessions of exercise per week.

I'm still learning a lot about my own capabilities and I'm starting to think the above is too much exercise (particularly in light of the fact that I'm a hardgainer?).

Since week 5 - 6 I've been exhausted (work has also been inordinately stressful).

So for wk 5-6 I have cut back the exercise to 4x per week (have mainly dropped the running and the bodyweight/crossfit exercises)

I've always needed a lot of sleep and I'm finding 8.5 hrs of sleep just isn't enough for me! I'm waking up groggy and tired. PT was at 8am today, I couldn't get up at 7:15am and eventually dragged myself out of bed at 7:30, scoffed breakfast and ran out the door. I felt very weak at PT (although my trainer told me that my weights had all gone up, so perhaps that's why). But I still can't help wondering if I'm overtraining? I am a notorious perfectionist so when it comes to exercise it's all-or-nothing - which I know isn't sustainable in the long run.

Sorry for the essay and for the lack of a specific question. Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts they could share!

 

[The Hulk]

Katie,

You gonna burn out if you keep going like that.
It seems like it's all catching up to you now, so it is a good decision to back off a bit.

I have the same all or nothing approach, but know this is wrong and have changed my approach recently to go for slow progress, rather than try to do too much too fast and then burn out like so many times in the past.

Too much, too quick is no good, especially for hardgainers who need more recovery time.
You can always add more work to your routine later as you adapt, if you need it.


Good Luck

 

[katie]

Thanks hulk. I think I've already burnt out lol. Training was just so hard today. I didn't want really want to be doing the heavy weights. Considered asking my trainer to drop the weights but I just sucked it up because at least it would be over soon (I only do 1/2 hr sessions and they already kill me!!)

Some of the weights have gone up, up by 2kgs on each of the DBs for the standing supported rows. (10kg DBs are so heavy!) so that would explain my feeling of weakness during the session. And I kept at the same weight for the lat pulldowns but they felt stronger/better this time compared to last time.

So hopefully next week I'll feel a lot better doing the same workout.

Will back off for a bit and report back!

 

[katie]

The weird thing is that I didn't have that euphoric feeling I normally have after finishing a punishing workout with my trainer. Normally I feel on top of the world but today it was just... "thank goodness that's over".

Well I'm still glad I went and did it though.

 

[Zarkov]

The simple answer to your question is it never does IHOMO.

 

[katie]

Really? Sleep and rest never become more important than training? OK - interesting answer.

I've just been reading over my training diary and I should've worked out something was going wrong after my maximum number of pushups started declining last week. Also my max plank time went way down back to Week 1 levels!

But that's ok - hopefully have nipped the issue in the bud. Currently in week 6 and I can see very definite strength grains. Eg. I was struggling with lat pulldowns at 70 lbs and now 80 lbs aren't too bad. Pushups have improved loads (well, anything's an improvement when one could only do 1 full pushup at the start!)

So all in all, I'll try to be the turtle rather than the hare. thanks for the advice!

 

[Kyle Aaron]

It's like asking whether your right leg or your left leg is more important. You need both to walk.

Likewise, you need training and rest unless you want to waste away into nothing. If you don't train you don't improve, if you don't sleep you don't improve, either. And each has its place, first the left foot, then the right - not one of them several times in a row.

I always quote Arnie as saying, "you've got to stay hungry." I'm a chef, right, and so you might wonder how we decide serving sizes. Well, if we give people more than or exactly as much as they can eat, they go away feeling stuffed, and whenever they think of our restaurant, they say to themselves, "that's where I felt sick." So they don't come back.

If we give people much less than they want to eat, they think we're stingy and get pissed off, and lose interest.

So the key is to give them just a bit less than what they want. You know that level of fullness where you think seriously about ordering another course, but realise you couldn't finish it. Then they go away thinking, "that was great, I wanted more." Around 80-90% of what they want, that's what we give them.

Well, same with workouts. You should work out until you think, "Should I do another exercise? I'd like to, but I couldn't handle another 5 sets, maybe only 2... okay I'll stop now." So as you walk out, you feel hungry, you want to come back! You don't feel sick.

I was doing 4-5 weight sessions weekly, and really blasting myself. It was too much, twice I almost squashed myself on the bench. So now I've wound it back - Mon/Wed/Fri is weights, Tue/Thu/Sat is going for a run. This is working really well for me, I pumped out more chins than before today, and found the other exercises easier, too.

"You've got to stay hungry!"​

 

[breebreerocks]

Hey Katie. I would say you are overtraining. Been there myself- doing morning and evening sessions, pushing yourself way past exhaustion and then wondering why you are going backwards. Just drop back a couple of sessions and see how your body recovers. Always good to mix it up a bit anyway. Since you are obviously someone who prefers to be active, I can't imagine that slowing down a little bit will mean that you'll ditch your program completely.

 

[Zarkov]

Really? Sleep and rest never become more important than training? OK - interesting answer.

Well to explain more,the sun will still set and rise every day if you don`t
train.Eat right and live right and you can get by just fine without training and
maintain a good healthy weight and physique.
But go without sleep and rest and you will never get by.

 

[katie]

Thanks for the replies to the thread, everyone I'm definitely learning heaps from you guys.

By the way I don't even see rockclimbing as exercise - it's a hobby for me! And when I go twice or three times a week... that's a lot of exercise I've clocked up already without even realising it!! Also I don't ever get DOMS from it because I do it so regularly, which makes me think I can do more weights the day after. I guess I need to treat it accordingly as a weights session - need some rest after it.

Well - I'm now FORCED to rest - I sprained my ankle going for a run yesterday. So, no basketball or rockclimbing for a week. Maybe this is just the thing I need - something forcing me to slow down!!

I don't like slowing down though. (actually hubby got a bit frustrated with me because I insisted on playing both bball and going rockclimbing today - 1 day after I sprained my ankle!! Lol. after much arguing I have relented against doing both those things.)

But I guess I'll have to take it easy!

 

[Zarkov]

I`m a dumbarse
I read Katies question the wrong way around.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Of course rock-climbing is exercise! It's like a hundred chin-ups! Wickedly isometric, I'd say - your muscles are under tension the whole time.

Just because it doesn't hurt the day after doesn't mean it's not exercising you. Today, for example, I have no soreness - only a bit in the pecs if I tense them really hard. But I certainly worked out yesterday, and I'm getting stronger and leaner.

My guideline would be to have just one thing that makes you sweat each day, and at least one day off a week. There's only so much a person's body can take.

Plus, as I tell my own over-active woman, you have to leave some energy for your man

 

[Morgan]

My guideline would be to have just one thing that makes you sweat each day, and at least one day off a week. There's only so much a person's body can take.

I'm screwed then, I work as a mechanical fitter lifting heavy motors / gearboxes into place doing very physical work 5-6 days a week and train 3-4 days a week, I feel like I've been run over by a truck after work most days but I still have to gym it... Sometimes I wish I was an office bitch, it would help me with my training a lot as I wouldn't be so physically wrecked everytime I walk in the gym

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Well, guidelines are guidelines, Morgan. Not railway tracks you have to travel along. The only question about what you're doing that matters is: is it working for you?

So okay Katie is doing all this stuff and she's exhausted. So it's fair for us to suggest she needs to eat more and/or do less.

You're doing all this stuff, Morgan, how do you feel after the workout? Are you achieving what you want to achieve? If you feel good and are achieving your goals, screw the guidelines! If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid.

Do you feel good? Are you achieving your goals?

PS I worked as a guillotine operator in a sheet metal for three months once. Cutting 3-8mm steel, up to 2m x 2m sheets on my own, 6m x 2m sheets with others' help. I didn't need a gym workout, I got big fast. At my strongest, the boss wanted to move a box of scrap metal somewhere, I just picked it up and carried it 40 metres. It was 120kg. Every morning I woke up with a cramped back, but half an hour into work it was loosened up again. If I'd stuck at that job, I'd be built like Squashenegger by now. But then I'd be crippled at 50

 

[katie]

I guess the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Many's the time I've wished for an non sedentary job. But I'm not cut out for manual labour. And I do enjoy my office job as it involves fairly analytical work (which I love, strangely enough).

Anyway my ankle's all strapped up and I can't do much exercise. I did some planks and pushups today though, just to see how I was coming along in strength/endurance, and am pretty happy with that.

 

[katie]

Just some random thoughts about overtraining now that I've had some time to slow down and think about it. My personality type is particularly geared towards doing too much. I'm a typical Type A personality, a real perfectionist.

This sums me up pretty well:

"Type A behavior is characterized by an intense and sustained drive to achieve goals and an eagerness to compete. Personalities categorized as Type A tend to have a persistent desire for external recognition and advancement. They are involved in various functions that bring about time restrictions. Such personalities have a tendency to speed up mental and physical tasks with extraordinary mental and physical alertness. These characteristics make for super-achievers and high-powered people.

Type A individuals can get a lot done and have the potential to really move ahead in the world. But there is a high price to pay. Certain components of such a personality can inhibit happiness and even threaten health. For example, the goals that Type A folks set are often poorly defined and therefore hard to achieve—a perfect recipe for misery."

For example when I began my 12 week challenge, week 1 consisted of doing exercise day and night, for 6 days (and resting on the 7th). I truly love exercising eg. rockclimbing but I was grinding myself into a hole at that point. I eased up during weeks 2 - 4 (1 full day of rest) but by weeks 5-6 I'm discovering that I need more (eg. 3 full days of rest).

Fair enough - I'm still learning and still young, lots of time yet to wise up and get the balance right.