The Real Science of Squat Depth - t nation article

[Repacked]

This injury is common with Olympic weightlifters whose pulling power is not the best, forcing the weight cleaned to bury them deep in the hole, leaving them no option but to bounce (usually more than once) to free themselves out of that deep position. At the time when the adrenaline is pumping, one does not feel the damage, however later on at rest, all comes back to haunt tat lifter. The patellar tendon tear more than often occurs in competition, and you can hear the pop/tear! I don't understand the second part of your question Repacked.

I was just querying whether it was not a benefit rather than a hazard but it appears it is both under extreme conditions. You answered my question.

 

[Goosey]

This injury is common with Olympic weightlifters whose pulling power is not the best, forcing the weight cleaned to bury them deep in the hole, leaving them no option but to bounce (usually more than once) to free themselves out of that deep position. At the time when the adrenaline is pumping, one does not feel the damage, however later on at rest, all comes back to haunt tat lifter. The patellar tendon tear more than often occurs in competition, and you can hear the pop/tear! I don't understand the second part of your question Repacked.

The force of the calf against the hamstring is 50 times the weight on the bar at the point of impact.

the knee joint absorbs the impact.

i must say that the ATG squat is not an Olympic movement nor should not be treated as such, it's an exercise that should strengthen the joints, stimulate the system and make one as strong as an ox

confusing sport and training with exercise is causing a lot of trouble

 

[Fadi]

The force of the calf against the hamstring is 50 times the weight on the bar at the point of impact.

the knee joint absorbs the impact.

i must say that the ATG squat is not an Olympic movement nor should not be treated as such, it's an exercise that should strengthen the joints, stimulate the system and make one as strong as an ox

confusing sport and training with exercise is causing a lot of trouble

What you have quoted me on, makes it very clear that the squat I was alluding to was the front squat instead of the back squat. As far as I know, the front squat is mainly executed by Olympic weightlifters, because they're the ones needing it most, it being part and parcel of the sport after the weight gets cleaned in the clean and jerk movement. Is the ATG front squat an Olympic weightlifting movement all by itself? No of course not. However it is a major part/exercise that belongs to one of the two movements of that sport.

 

[Goosey]

What you have quoted me on, makes it very clear that the squat I was alluding to was the front squat instead of the back squat. As far as I know, the front squat is mainly executed by Olympic weightlifters, because they're the ones needing it most, it being part and parcel of the sport after the weight gets cleaned in the clean and jerk movement. Is the ATG front squat an Olympic weightlifting movement all by itself? No of course not. However it is a major part/exercise that belongs to one of the two movements of that sport.

For the Olympic lifter Do you think the squat, front and back should be used in skills training?
seeing as training is about specificity would you think that using those two exercises counterproductive?

to me, performing the squat as an exercise as opposed to a major part of a movement pattern are two very different things.

 

[WoodyAllen]

"The ideal squat ends around parallel. This puts sarcomeres in a position to produce the most tension and force.

Admittedly, a majority of research studies suggest deep squats are more effective and healthier on the joints than partial squats or parallel squats. These results are to be expected when comparing deep squats to partial squats. However, the fact that deep squats have been shown to be safer and more effective than parallel squats can be attributed to one factor – faulty research and flawed application of practical training methods."


https://www.t-nation.com/training/real-science-of-squat-depth



I knew ATG Squats can be bad but always thought below parallel was the ideal Squat depth. So the bro's had it right all along?

A more recent article that promotes the opposite view. And this one is also mostly crap. For example:

There are two current schools in powerlifting: "Assistive Gear" and "More Assistive Gear" (although raw federations and meets are starting to make a comeback). These two schools are exemplified by two major and distinct federations: the IPF and the WPO.

Well, it was written in 2007, but even then equipped lifting was going out the back door like logic in an NRA conference.


https://www.t-nation.com/training/olympic-vs-powerlifting-squats

 

[Fadi]

For the Olympic lifter Do you think the squat, front and back should be used in skills training?
seeing as training is about specificity would you think that using those two exercises counterproductive?

No, not both exercises, only the front squat. My reasoning is as follows: the front squat is the variant which is most specific to the Olympic lifts, since it is the bottom position of the clean; the starting position of a front squat more closely resembles the starting position of a clean because the trunk is more upright than in the back squat, hence the front squat is more useful for improving the lifter’s cleaning (and recovering) position once the weight has been racked in.

Re training being about specificity, I would not consider the back squat as an essential exercise, an exercise that would add something in the light of what I’ve just written re the front squat. On the contrary, I believe that the back squat could actually be a hindrance to a lifter’s progress when the focus is on bar positioning after it’s been racked in. Again, that upright torso with bar resting high on the clavicles with full depth (ATG), and acute hip and knee angles...all these factors mirror a front squat position. To reiterate, the receiving position of a clean is more specific to that of a front squat and not a back squat.

The front squat is not only a measure of the lifter’s true leg strength, but it’s great in the way it adds to the lifter’s flexibility/mobility through all the key joints: the ankles, knees, hips, shoulders and elbows. . While in the bottom position of the front squat, the ankles, shoulders, wrists and hips will be pushed to their mobility limits, which is not always the case with a back squat as lifters will often cut the squat short, or lean forward to grind the weight up.

to me, performing the squat as an exercise as opposed to a major part of a movement pattern are two very different things.

Technically you are right, however it’s not an element I’d like to separate when it comes to the front squat.