I agree that individuals need to think foremost of their own progress and not allow their bodies pay the price for their ego. All the more reason for a coach to be in control and set the tone for things. Partly a very good reason to avoid strength charts. There are levels of competence in strength but they're only general. Having said that I'd like to see pro Australian football players squat a little better, I should not be squatting more than they are.
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Strength & Conditioning for footballers
- Thread starter PTC
- Start date
Rugby88
I have Ep1c Calendar kunce
People dont understand how far behind or maybe not far behind but just doing the wrong things Australian sports strength and conditioning is....I have NRL players who train in my gym I will not name names...but there program is (they do this upto 3 times a week) Bench, supp row, db press, push ups, skull crushers....what is this? Arnt these guys suppose to be Elite athletes? - now its not my position to say what or wat they cant do they have a professional strength and conditioning coach that says yay or nay to what their doing.
Strength and conditioning is backward in Australia than other places - for example you have X good junior rugby player, plays state level football as a junior, gets selected into development programs..maybe does abit of weight training...then makes a super 14 team for example and THEN gets taught how to lift or is shown the importance of weight training....and even then sometimes the things they are taught arnt right....
In America for example you will have X gridiron player - from the time he steps into high school hes doing weights, hes doing weights with his team, hes being taught by a strength and conditioning coach from a young age (normally 14-15) - by the time he is 18-19 if he has gone down the right track hes pretty much at an elite athlete level.....I have heard may reports about NFL players who have been purely selected on how strong,fast, big they are not how skillful they are....I read once that a player had done the fastest times in the combine but it took him TWO years to catch a ball in the right way once he had made the NFL.....
Im not saying either one is better or worse but in Australian sport there needs to be more focus put on strength and conditioning for athletes and more time focused on teaching players how to squat, how to bench, how to dead etc etc etc - really at the end of the day this is what Strength and Conditioning coaches are being paid for....
Sorry for the rant LOL
Strength and conditioning is backward in Australia than other places - for example you have X good junior rugby player, plays state level football as a junior, gets selected into development programs..maybe does abit of weight training...then makes a super 14 team for example and THEN gets taught how to lift or is shown the importance of weight training....and even then sometimes the things they are taught arnt right....
In America for example you will have X gridiron player - from the time he steps into high school hes doing weights, hes doing weights with his team, hes being taught by a strength and conditioning coach from a young age (normally 14-15) - by the time he is 18-19 if he has gone down the right track hes pretty much at an elite athlete level.....I have heard may reports about NFL players who have been purely selected on how strong,fast, big they are not how skillful they are....I read once that a player had done the fastest times in the combine but it took him TWO years to catch a ball in the right way once he had made the NFL.....
Im not saying either one is better or worse but in Australian sport there needs to be more focus put on strength and conditioning for athletes and more time focused on teaching players how to squat, how to bench, how to dead etc etc etc - really at the end of the day this is what Strength and Conditioning coaches are being paid for....
Sorry for the rant LOL
Not so much at the NFL level but at the college level players of superior athletic skill but questionable football skills will be given a chance.
Only thing we can do is change it as best we can with the athletes we encounter, its always very hard to resist being as belligerent as possible towards the status quo.
Only thing we can do is change it as best we can with the athletes we encounter, its always very hard to resist being as belligerent as possible towards the status quo.
Goosey
.
If you are aware of the history of physical culture in America you will see that there have been a lot of forces at play and why it has turned into an industry it should have never been.
I think it was Hoffman who upon bill pearls advice back in the sixties went to Russia to try and find out how these men were dominating and what their secret was.
It could not just have been the dianobol.
The Russian coach was surprised he was being asked, he opened his draw and pulled out a handful of weider magazines.
It's an old but true statement; you cannot sell simple.
Posted via Mobile Device
I think it was Hoffman who upon bill pearls advice back in the sixties went to Russia to try and find out how these men were dominating and what their secret was.
It could not just have been the dianobol.
The Russian coach was surprised he was being asked, he opened his draw and pulled out a handful of weider magazines.
It's an old but true statement; you cannot sell simple.
Posted via Mobile Device
There is a few people who need to have the finger pointed at for some of 'all this mess'.
I'm not sure if I would summarize the problem exactly as you have Silverback. This link talks about Dr Ziegler's role in dianabol being brought to the USA. I dont think the eastern bloc countries got good by simply copying what the Americans were doing in the 30's, 40's and 50's, I think they started training smarter and it was Hoffman's obsession with 'physique' over ability and simplicity that was the reason they lost out. Indeed, the eastern bloc countries had the phamaceuticals first.
When we build a time machine the hit list will include but not limited to....
Bob Hoffman for marketing his power racks and iso crap and stultifying progress in the technical aspects of OL.
Joe Weider for making people think that size and leaness was more important than strength and ability.
Arthur Jones for coming up with nautilus.
Ken Cooper for being the 'father of aerobics'.
Richard Simmons for being Richard Simmons and giving cover for all the other hucksters.
Our footballers are children of the zeitgeist these guys created and whilst Hoffman in particular was doing a lot of things then that I wish we could go back to they all are culpable to an extent with the mess things are in now.
I'm not sure if I would summarize the problem exactly as you have Silverback. This link talks about Dr Ziegler's role in dianabol being brought to the USA. I dont think the eastern bloc countries got good by simply copying what the Americans were doing in the 30's, 40's and 50's, I think they started training smarter and it was Hoffman's obsession with 'physique' over ability and simplicity that was the reason they lost out. Indeed, the eastern bloc countries had the phamaceuticals first.
When we build a time machine the hit list will include but not limited to....
Bob Hoffman for marketing his power racks and iso crap and stultifying progress in the technical aspects of OL.
Joe Weider for making people think that size and leaness was more important than strength and ability.
Arthur Jones for coming up with nautilus.
Ken Cooper for being the 'father of aerobics'.
Richard Simmons for being Richard Simmons and giving cover for all the other hucksters.
Our footballers are children of the zeitgeist these guys created and whilst Hoffman in particular was doing a lot of things then that I wish we could go back to they all are culpable to an extent with the mess things are in now.
Goosey
.
The problem is manifold.
One of the many issues is that Strength is quite difficult to measure, did a particular method of training improve their performance? Reduce the rate of injury?
I don't think any coach in the AFL have the concept of proper barbell training.
If they did, it would be quite difficult to put into practice.
Posted via Mobile Device
Any strength training is going to be difficult to measure. And not so much AFL specifically - even a lot of rugby coaches fail dismally.
I cant see how it would be difficult to practise either. A shed with 4-6 racks and bumper sets must surely be more time and cost efficient than running them through 10 hammer strength machines.
DKD
Private Dancer
Markos,
One thing I've been wondering as I've been reading this thread is whether there is a standard type program that you prescribe for the young footballer.
We have seen your PTC Beginner Program for the rest of us novices, but do you have a standard program just for footy players? Or is it non-standard and specific to individual circumstances, positions etc?
It's of no relevance to me but I'm just curious and thought maybe some young 16-17 yo guys out there who play footy would like to know how to better focus their strength training efforts.
Also, lay off Richard Simmons fellas, that guy is my hero!!
One thing I've been wondering as I've been reading this thread is whether there is a standard type program that you prescribe for the young footballer.
We have seen your PTC Beginner Program for the rest of us novices, but do you have a standard program just for footy players? Or is it non-standard and specific to individual circumstances, positions etc?
It's of no relevance to me but I'm just curious and thought maybe some young 16-17 yo guys out there who play footy would like to know how to better focus their strength training efforts.
Also, lay off Richard Simmons fellas, that guy is my hero!!
Goosey
.
How do you effectively improve the strength and measure the strength of the hamstring?
The lumber?
It would be very difficult to supervise 20 players safely on racks and more inefficient than specific strength equipment.
Posted via Mobile Device
In the short term, just the introduction of compound barbell movements is going to be better than what occurs now. The programming of the lifting and the bio-energetics of the sport will become more important after the first problem is solved.
That first problem is barbell competency. The best programming in the world is useless without it.
If the football playing population had sound barbell mechanics and sound running mechanics then the programming can be done centrally for a whole club or sport and tinkered individually where quality S & C coaches are available or the athlete can work on for themselves.
That first problem is barbell competency. The best programming in the world is useless without it.
If the football playing population had sound barbell mechanics and sound running mechanics then the programming can be done centrally for a whole club or sport and tinkered individually where quality S & C coaches are available or the athlete can work on for themselves.
PowerBuilder
New member
i'm finding this thread really interesting.
I coached a young guy the other night, a rugby player...on the power clean. He got the idea really well. I'll go into detail in a thread of it's own in terms of how i did it.
as an aspiring S&C coach, you've all given me plenty to think about
I coached a young guy the other night, a rugby player...on the power clean. He got the idea really well. I'll go into detail in a thread of it's own in terms of how i did it.
as an aspiring S&C coach, you've all given me plenty to think about
If your answer is the leg curl then we have problems.
I'd totally disagree. From what I've seen of the New Zealand and UK teams (as only they can be bothered recording their workouts) the team spread out into a massive labyrinth of a commercial gym and do their own thing whilst the 1-2 coaches work on individual players.
Compare that to an open plan shed where 4-5 players are taking turns using a single platform and rack.