-
Join the Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum The Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum is dedicated to no nonsense muscle and strength building. If you need advice that works, you have come to the right place. This forum focuses on building strength and muscle using the basics. You will also find that the Ausbb- Australian Bodybuilding Forum stresses encouragement and respect. Trolls and name calling are not allowed here. No matter what your personal goals are, you will be given effective advice that produces results.
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Please consider registering. It takes 30 seconds, and will allow you to get the most out of the forum.
Strength & Conditioning for footballers
- Thread starter PTC
- Start date
Rugby88
I have Ep1c Calendar kunce
NRL is good at developing athletes im not saying there not but in regards to just pure strength union has them...union is more of a strength dominated sport compared to league - all league players need to be at pretty much the same level - thats why you see centres playing prop and props playing centre sometimes - as an example.
I guess if I had to pick an overall athlete then league would prob win - but lets say if you got a league prop and a union prop a union prop would dominate in regards to pure strength.
As I said union is more-so a strength based sport meaning stronger athletes.
I guess if I had to pick an overall athlete then league would prob win - but lets say if you got a league prop and a union prop a union prop would dominate in regards to pure strength.
As I said union is more-so a strength based sport meaning stronger athletes.
Yeah there called New South Welshman and Queenslanders.
macca
New member
I like a part of this. In the juniors especially it's all about size, very little to do with skill. Also in league, size in juniors dictates field position. Give the small kid a run on the wing, the fat kid can be prop, little shifty guy in the halves in slim bloke on the wing, The biggest most grown kid's can get a rep spot to go with it! hence the biggest kids get the best skill development etc!
No. One of them was impressed with my teaching style.
The coachs son,William, is only 15 and training with me as well.
He has a poor squatting technique, like most 15 year olds, no trunk strength.
I had them doing bench squats, learning to sit back. William has poor flexibility to go with his other issues, so I removed the bar from the equation and him practice without any weight.
We drilled it over and over, until William was able to sit back without free falling, and stand up without touching his nose on the bench.
The conditioning coach came over and said he was surprised and impressed by my technique, how I took the time to teach form and not get carried away with weight.
He must have worked with some real drop kicks.
Anyway, William can do near perfect front squats, guess what he'll be doing for the next 3 months lol.
He was impressed watching Jesse lift as Max was training his girls. Jesse deadlifted 147kg for reps with the trap bar and squatted 125kg @ 62kg. Jesse squats deeper than Max. There isnt a player on the Dolphins list who can squat 125kg, and to see a 16yo kid who just started lifting a few months ago do it was a bit of a shock for them.
The coachs son,William, is only 15 and training with me as well.
He has a poor squatting technique, like most 15 year olds, no trunk strength.
I had them doing bench squats, learning to sit back. William has poor flexibility to go with his other issues, so I removed the bar from the equation and him practice without any weight.
We drilled it over and over, until William was able to sit back without free falling, and stand up without touching his nose on the bench.
The conditioning coach came over and said he was surprised and impressed by my technique, how I took the time to teach form and not get carried away with weight.
He must have worked with some real drop kicks.
Anyway, William can do near perfect front squats, guess what he'll be doing for the next 3 months lol.
He was impressed watching Jesse lift as Max was training his girls. Jesse deadlifted 147kg for reps with the trap bar and squatted 125kg @ 62kg. Jesse squats deeper than Max. There isnt a player on the Dolphins list who can squat 125kg, and to see a 16yo kid who just started lifting a few months ago do it was a bit of a shock for them.
Latest edition of the Journal of Strength and Conditioning JASC Sept 2010 (Vol 18, Issue 3)has a submission on 'Comparing the speed and strength-related physical qualities of NRL and QLD Cup Rugby League Players (wingers and centers)'
The sample size of the testing is so small (20 subjects in total) that conclusions are few, however here are some of the findings that may be of some interest and it must be pointed out that the data was collected by the researchers via correspondence with the coaches at the clubs; there was no single tester for the data collection.
AVG BW, 3 rep max Squat, 3 rep max Bench, Vert Jump, 40m dash
NRL Centers 96kg, 165kg, 139kg, 71cm, 5.03
QLD Cup Centers 89kg, 151kg, 120kg, 60cm, 5.55
NRL Wingers 90kg, 157kg, 129kg, 72 cm, 4.84
QLD Cup Wingers 86kg, 155kg, 129kg, 69cm, 5.04
A lot could be said about the paper and the data. A few comments I would make would be on what I consider very poor squat and vertical jump numbers. The nature of the test itself would need some further investigation (we all know about squat numbers; vertical jump I have seen assessed a few different ways) but the squat numbers were called 'full depth' squats and if that is the case those are poor results for professional football players in my opinion and even worse if they are the sort of quarter squats that are regularly performed. The vertical jump numbers to me reflect the poor lower body strength.
The results are consistent with what I have observed directly and by personal correspondence with Rugby League athlete development; the data here is of course a very small sampling as I stated, but I'm not surprised by it.
The sample size of the testing is so small (20 subjects in total) that conclusions are few, however here are some of the findings that may be of some interest and it must be pointed out that the data was collected by the researchers via correspondence with the coaches at the clubs; there was no single tester for the data collection.
AVG BW, 3 rep max Squat, 3 rep max Bench, Vert Jump, 40m dash
NRL Centers 96kg, 165kg, 139kg, 71cm, 5.03
QLD Cup Centers 89kg, 151kg, 120kg, 60cm, 5.55
NRL Wingers 90kg, 157kg, 129kg, 72 cm, 4.84
QLD Cup Wingers 86kg, 155kg, 129kg, 69cm, 5.04
A lot could be said about the paper and the data. A few comments I would make would be on what I consider very poor squat and vertical jump numbers. The nature of the test itself would need some further investigation (we all know about squat numbers; vertical jump I have seen assessed a few different ways) but the squat numbers were called 'full depth' squats and if that is the case those are poor results for professional football players in my opinion and even worse if they are the sort of quarter squats that are regularly performed. The vertical jump numbers to me reflect the poor lower body strength.
The results are consistent with what I have observed directly and by personal correspondence with Rugby League athlete development; the data here is of course a very small sampling as I stated, but I'm not surprised by it.
PowerBuilder
New member
I got that newsletter \ journal yesterday.
Why do pro athletes still use the bench press as a measurement tool? sure so Joe public can look at it and say "wow!! That's impressive". Within the community I must admit I'm unsure if the bp helps with function
Posted via Mobile Device
Why do pro athletes still use the bench press as a measurement tool? sure so Joe public can look at it and say "wow!! That's impressive". Within the community I must admit I'm unsure if the bp helps with function
Posted via Mobile Device
Its hard to say whom is to blame really. Its so far gone that no one party is totally responsible. The S&C coaches come from the same education models as the rest of the industry and they were born of what are likely their own personal experiences with growing up in the sport (most would be ex-players from a young age)
The current players are merely growing up in a pre-soiled strength environment. There isn't anyone around to teach them any better.
The bench press is lauded over in sport as it is in the rest of the community. The good pre-sorted football players will continue to play very good football despite their poor lower body strength at the highest levels until they meet enough competition who are squatting and deadlifting competently.
The current players are merely growing up in a pre-soiled strength environment. There isn't anyone around to teach them any better.
The bench press is lauded over in sport as it is in the rest of the community. The good pre-sorted football players will continue to play very good football despite their poor lower body strength at the highest levels until they meet enough competition who are squatting and deadlifting competently.
Goosey
.
The cause effect relationship with the squat is it's an exercise, yes an exercise... That if done correctly over a protracted time will produce most " bang for buck".
Done incorrectly will have the same effect, in a negative way.
I'm sure that is one reason that this exercise is not promoted, the risk being too high, harder to supervise a group of people on this exercise than a leg-press.
The squat is a risky exercise. I feel the same results can be achieved in a safer, more efficient manner using some carefully selected equipment.
As far as sport and the general population is concerned; the act of just squatting is far more important than - " how much can you squat?"
The message should always be, we are building strength, not demonstrating it.
Posted via Mobile Device
Done incorrectly will have the same effect, in a negative way.
I'm sure that is one reason that this exercise is not promoted, the risk being too high, harder to supervise a group of people on this exercise than a leg-press.
The squat is a risky exercise. I feel the same results can be achieved in a safer, more efficient manner using some carefully selected equipment.
As far as sport and the general population is concerned; the act of just squatting is far more important than - " how much can you squat?"
The message should always be, we are building strength, not demonstrating it.
Posted via Mobile Device
As long as the paradigm is characterized by 'exercise' rather than movement skills and ability then there will not be a change in it. As soon as the discourse shifts to considerations of correct and incorrect then the issue of safety arises where it need not. There is no correct or incorrect squatting, only more efficient and less efficient, that's not just semantics, that is a demonstration of the lack of focus on physical ability and its enhancement and that if one is going to be in the business of exercise prescription then one has to justify its selections.
In that case, yes, if one has admitted that they are not willing to coach movement skills with a high return value, then leg pressing (for example) will continue to serve as an acceptable substitute.
It will also be safe to take refuge in that strategym from opponents who are a part of a medium to long term planned player development process amongst clubs where coaching efficient movement skills and ability are promoted; as at this time there is no fear of running into anything like that.
Curiously Silverback, on your last point, I'm not sure what the value is of strength that cannot be demonstrated or how one would even know if they possessed such a thing, I think that message might need a re-write.
Only for people for whom are experiencing diminishing returns on the act of squatting its mere practice more important than how much can be squatted. My contention for professional, semi professional and aspiring football players is that they are not at this point.
In that case, yes, if one has admitted that they are not willing to coach movement skills with a high return value, then leg pressing (for example) will continue to serve as an acceptable substitute.
It will also be safe to take refuge in that strategym from opponents who are a part of a medium to long term planned player development process amongst clubs where coaching efficient movement skills and ability are promoted; as at this time there is no fear of running into anything like that.
Curiously Silverback, on your last point, I'm not sure what the value is of strength that cannot be demonstrated or how one would even know if they possessed such a thing, I think that message might need a re-write.
Only for people for whom are experiencing diminishing returns on the act of squatting its mere practice more important than how much can be squatted. My contention for professional, semi professional and aspiring football players is that they are not at this point.
Goosey
.
You're going to have to dumb that down for me 
My last comment is based on my own experience working with people, in the gym where the purpose of exercise is to improve strength, a coach needs to create the environment where the trainee is focused on improving himself, his progress - and not being concerned with how much his team mates are lifting.
He should be competing against himself.
Not showing his team mates how much he can lift.
Posted via Mobile Device
My last comment is based on my own experience working with people, in the gym where the purpose of exercise is to improve strength, a coach needs to create the environment where the trainee is focused on improving himself, his progress - and not being concerned with how much his team mates are lifting.
He should be competing against himself.
Not showing his team mates how much he can lift.
Posted via Mobile Device