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Steroids and strength gain

spartacus said:
Oni said 'You're constantly obsessed with what people are on and it's tragic'.

No, not obsessed, just interested. I have long been fascinated with sports performance, and how it can be enhanced.

Don't read it if the discussion disturbs you.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong or misreading things but you seem to have an issue with any1 using PED's regardless of it they are lying or not. I just wonder why people have an issue with what other guys are doing? At the end of the day why would it matter if someone was using PED's.
 


Cheating in sport. That doesn't matter?
 
Do you think I am alone?

In most sports it is deemed cheating; in a few, with optional federations, it is not.

I have an interest, and hope to produce a few academic articles on this subject in next few years.

I have submitted one to an international journal about powerlifting, and how govt policy has been a failure for last 20 years.

Not only do i support drug testing, but it gives me something to do.

If people want to take them, that is their choice; I just wish to fill the details in in subject areas where I and perhaps others, have an interest.

and I never play the man, besides Oni briefly, I just wish to illustrate my version about the evidence.
 
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Fighting the good fight
 
Many, and perhaps most on this site, would say what I am doing is a waste of time, and perhaps I am being a shit stirrer.

I disagree. I think AusBB is wise to have both sides of debate.

On one hand, some are free to talk about drugs: doses, types and so on.

On other hand, others may point to disadvantages, and options out there.

When some point to all weights lifted being equal, judged alone by poundage lifted, I say bs.

When someone says you can get most gains naturally, and that drugs only gets you faster, I also say bs.
 
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Paul Anderson put up weights that are unmatched since
Hermann Görner put up something like 750-800lb on the deadlift at 242 and there are one maybe two people alive today that can match that
 
0ni said:
Paul Anderson put up weights that are unmatched since
Hermann Görner put up something like 750-800lb on the deadlift at 242 and there are one maybe two people alive today that can match that
Click to expand...

[MENTION=8399]0ni[/MENTION];

Why is that?
 
Oni, are you naming yourself, and what are your points?

Thread is basically self-explanatory: how much assistance does drugs give your lifts?

Oni, how much do you estimate PEDs and other drugs have given your performance?
 
0ni said:
They didn't have idiots on forums telling them they couldn't do shit
Click to expand...

I don't think you really truely understand, that some people on this planet are just streets ahead of the rest, Anderson, Ive been told; had to be seen to be believed, none of us would understand this.

And again i say you cannot make chicken soup out of chicken wing shit.
 
Silverback, that is the other key point I have been trying to make.

The drugs, which may be both costly and dangerous for some, are merely icing on the cake, even if there is no drug testing.

Now if someone was struggling on 80kg bench and say 130kg squat (without wraps), only a moron could advise people as weak as that to take drugs.

You cannot mould a Michelangelo out of Pinocchio, can you?
 
spartacus said:
Oni, are you naming yourself, and what are your points?

Thread is basically self-explanatory: how much assistance does drugs give your lifts?

Oni, how much do you estimate PEDs and other drugs have given your performance?
Click to expand...

I've already explained that you can't put a number on it
 
if I knew why it was impossible then I'd be able to accurately put a number on it
I forgot what type of circular logic this is, but it's interesting
you don't know what you don't know
people often say diet is 80% or whatever, it's impossible to tell. You can say that you improved this amount in this time but how much can really be attributed to drugs? too many factors. maybe your training sucked that month, maybe it would have been amazing, combination of both

One thing is for certain though, a natural trainee will often beat a steroid user through hard work, determination, luck, genetics etc. All things being equal? Pointless to discuss because things are never equal. Bill Kaz benched 160 the first time he even tried the exercise.
 
Tell that logic to all the people who conduct studies where they try to isolate particular aspect while taking account of other variables.

When I have asked Aust champions athletes how much benefit they got from PEDS, mainly steroids, never has one reverted to philosophical bullshit like you are now offering (Oni).

They also obviously had a fair inkling of what happened: hence, quick and rationale answers or information that helped one come to a conclusion, reasonably informed.

Of course Oni could quantify his own benefit from his 2013 experience with PEDs. Oni, you just don't want to admit the benefit you gained.
 
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Posted here because relevant to my thread as well.
 

Olympic champion Udo Beyer (shot put 1976 in Montreal for GDR) admits doping
 
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