Steroids and strength gain

[Rugby88]

Oni said 'You're constantly obsessed with what people are on and it's tragic'.

No, not obsessed, just interested. I have long been fascinated with sports performance, and how it can be enhanced.

Don't read it if the discussion disturbs you.

I could be wrong or misreading things but you seem to have an issue with any1 using PED's regardless of it they are lying or not. I just wonder why people have an issue with what other guys are doing? At the end of the day why would it matter if someone was using PED's.

 

[Bazza20]

I could be wrong or misreading things but you seem to have an issue with any1 using PED's regardless of it they are lying or not. I just wonder why people have an issue with what other guys are doing? At the end of the day why would it matter if someone was using PED's.

Cheating in sport. That doesn't matter?

 

[spartacus]

I could be wrong or misreading things but you seem to have an issue with any1 using PED's regardless of it they are lying or not. I just wonder why people have an issue with what other guys are doing? At the end of the day why would it matter if someone was using PED's.

Do you think I am alone?

In most sports it is deemed cheating; in a few, with optional federations, it is not.

I have an interest, and hope to produce a few academic articles on this subject in next few years.

I have submitted one to an international journal about powerlifting, and how govt policy has been a failure for last 20 years.

Not only do i support drug testing, but it gives me something to do.

If people want to take them, that is their choice; I just wish to fill the details in in subject areas where I and perhaps others, have an interest.

and I never play the man, besides Oni briefly, I just wish to illustrate my version about the evidence.

 

[Goosey]

Do you think I am alone?

In most sports it is deemed cheating; in a few, with optional federations, it is not.

I have an interest, and hope to produce a few academic articles on this subject in next few years.

I have submitted one to an international journal about powerlifting, and how govt policy has been a failure for last 20 years.

Not only do i support drug testing, but it gives me something to do.

If people want to take them, that is their choice; I just wish to fill the details in in subject areas where I and perhaps others, have an interest.

Fighting the good fight

 

[spartacus]

Many, and perhaps most on this site, would say what I am doing is a waste of time, and perhaps I am being a shit stirrer.

I disagree. I think AusBB is wise to have both sides of debate.

On one hand, some are free to talk about drugs: doses, types and so on.

On other hand, others may point to disadvantages, and options out there.

When some point to all weights lifted being equal, judged alone by poundage lifted, I say bs.

When someone says you can get most gains naturally, and that drugs only gets you faster, I also say bs.

 

[0ni]

Paul Anderson put up weights that are unmatched since
Hermann Görner put up something like 750-800lb on the deadlift at 242 and there are one maybe two people alive today that can match that

 

[Goosey]

Paul Anderson put up weights that are unmatched since
Hermann Görner put up something like 750-800lb on the deadlift at 242 and there are one maybe two people alive today that can match that

[MENTION=8399]0ni[/MENTION];

Why is that?

 

[0ni]

They didn't have idiots on forums telling them they couldn't do shit

 

[spartacus]

Oni, are you naming yourself, and what are your points?

Thread is basically self-explanatory: how much assistance does drugs give your lifts?

Oni, how much do you estimate PEDs and other drugs have given your performance?

 

[Goosey]

They didn't have idiots on forums telling them they couldn't do shit

I don't think you really truely understand, that some people on this planet are just streets ahead of the rest, Anderson, Ive been told; had to be seen to be believed, none of us would understand this.

And again i say you cannot make chicken soup out of chicken wing shit.

 

[spartacus]

Silverback, that is the other key point I have been trying to make.

The drugs, which may be both costly and dangerous for some, are merely icing on the cake, even if there is no drug testing.

Now if someone was struggling on 80kg bench and say 130kg squat (without wraps), only a moron could advise people as weak as that to take drugs.

You cannot mould a Michelangelo out of Pinocchio, can you?

 

[0ni]

Oni, are you naming yourself, and what are your points?

Thread is basically self-explanatory: how much assistance does drugs give your lifts?

Oni, how much do you estimate PEDs and other drugs have given your performance?

I've already explained that you can't put a number on it

 

[spartacus]

Champions can put a number on it, why can't we, even if it does vary.

 

[0ni]

if I knew why it was impossible then I'd be able to accurately put a number on it
I forgot what type of circular logic this is, but it's interesting
you don't know what you don't know
people often say diet is 80% or whatever, it's impossible to tell. You can say that you improved this amount in this time but how much can really be attributed to drugs? too many factors. maybe your training sucked that month, maybe it would have been amazing, combination of both

One thing is for certain though, a natural trainee will often beat a steroid user through hard work, determination, luck, genetics etc. All things being equal? Pointless to discuss because things are never equal. Bill Kaz benched 160 the first time he even tried the exercise.

 

[spartacus]

Tell that logic to all the people who conduct studies where they try to isolate particular aspect while taking account of other variables.

When I have asked Aust champions athletes how much benefit they got from PEDS, mainly steroids, never has one reverted to philosophical bullshit like you are now offering (Oni).

They also obviously had a fair inkling of what happened: hence, quick and rationale answers or information that helped one come to a conclusion, reasonably informed.

Of course Oni could quantify his own benefit from his 2013 experience with PEDs. Oni, you just don't want to admit the benefit you gained.

 

[spartacus]

Vonfram said

Gains.

1. Trained alongside a guy with gymnastics background

Pre-juice he would have weighed maybe 70kg @ 5'7"
He went on an aggressive oral and injectable cycle for a year
Anapolon - two per day
Halo - up to four per day
Sustanon 250 - three ampoules per week
He trained sometimes twice per day 4-5 days per week

He weighed over 90kg at the end of the year and looked like a bodybuilder.
Bench went from struggling with 110kg to reps on 180kg
His eyeballs turned yellow
He was pock-marked from head to anus with cystic acne
Yes he trained, but so did all of us.

During that same period, I used egg white powder and Protein 90 as my only supplements. My bodyweight went from about 81kg to 84kg and my bench went from 130kg to 155kg.


Now if tinkerbell here on the forum isn't repping 180 on the bench in a year's time he ought to take up full contact chess instead.

Posted here because relevant to my thread as well.

 

[0ni]

sure thing buddy

 

[Johnnie Walker]

While i agree those would be the gains from that cycle i doubt its true, a year of halo and oxy? You would be so fuckin ill

 

[spartacus]

In a summary report to the Stasi on March 3, 1977, SMD Deputy Director Höppner (Vol. II of his Stasi reports under the code name “Technik,” pp. 243–44), described the GDR results and concluded:
At present anabolic steroids are applied in all Olympic sporting events, with the exception of sailing and gymnastics (female)2 , … and by all national teams. The application takes place according to approved basic plans, in which special situations of individual athletes are also considered. The positive value of anabolic steroids for the development of a top performance is undoubted. Here are a few examples… Performances could be improved with the support of these drugs within four years as follows: Shot-put (men) 2.5–4 m; Shot-put (women) 4.5–5 m; Discus throw (men) 10–12 m; Discus throw (women) 11–20 m; Hammer throw 6–10 m; Javelin throw (women) 8–15 m; 400 m (women) 4–5 sec; 800 m (women) 5–10 sec; 1500 m (women) 7–10 sec… Remarkable rates of increase in performances were also noted in the swimming events of women… . From our experiences made so far it can be concluded that women have the greatest advantage from treatments with anabolic hormones with respect to their performance in sports… . Especially high is the performance-supporting effect following the first administration of anabolic hormones, especially with junior athletes. "

Olympic champion Udo Beyer (shot put 1976 in Montreal for GDR) admits doping

 

[spartacus]

Whereas Koch, East Germany, ran 47.6 for 400m in 1985, now very few women break 50 seconds each year.