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short rest vs long rest between sets



You can easily do high volume workouts in the the 5 rep range. Not saying higher reps are not of benefit either.

Strength training is partly neurological but the strongest guys in the world are the biggest.

If you think strength and size have no relationship you have rocks in your head.
 
I'm dying to see these small guys who are incredibly strong.

Unless you're going to post examples of buffed up dwarves most strong small people are actually very strong looking or 'ripped'- they just weren't born with 6ft frames.

From what I've seen YES the biggest bodybuilders aren't necessarily stronger than the best powerlifters, but they are still ridiculously strong. And the biggest powerlifters - well, those of them who diet - all look a lot like bodybuilders.

And the best from each camp seem to employ training methods from the other, though to a lesser degree.
 
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Skinny dude high Box squats 2.1 x Body weight x5 - YouTube
14 year old freshman squats 610 - YouTube
540 pounds Seated Squat by small kid - YouTube
 
First vid is a high box squat.

Did you post a leg press vid.


Couple of strongish guys but the strongest guys are much bigger than them. Just look at records and body weight goes up weight lifted goes up.

Like I said strength and size are not exclusive. There is a lot of crossover.





Strong guys. Is it just by luck they are big?
 
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but why are you so sure that they do not train also like bodybuilders?
 
arthuroarti said:
but why are you so sure that they do not train also like bodybuilders?
Click to expand...

Powerlifters and bodybuilders both use high and low rep ranges.

Low reps and high reps can build muscle.

Just as low and high reps can build strength.

The effects are obviously are going to be slightly different.

Strength is not just neural.
 
1st guy was doing shallow squats with 180kg, not really strong.
2nd bloke squatting 275kg in a suit with wraps, probably a lot less raw, also he's got pretty big legs but not definition due to a high bodyfat %.
3rd guy uses a leg press - I don't know what factor of your squat weight people can leg press but from what I've seen its a huge factor, meaning he can probably squat 150kg or something - not impressive.

Last guy squatting 256kg ass to ground has pretty big quads if you ask me. Videos can be deceptive, if you saw him in reality you'd probably think 'fuck he looks big'. Also, 256kg for 1rm isn't a massive squat in powerlifting or bodybuilding terms.
 
Bazza20 said:
Powerlifters and bodybuilders both use high and low rep ranges.

Low reps and high reps can build muscle.

Just as low and high reps can build strength.

The effects are obviously are going to be slightly different.

Strength is not just neural.
Click to expand...

Of course high and low reps will build strength? But for an individual concerned to gain muscle (hypertrophy), why would you want to do low rep/heavy work? Keep getting stronger in moderate rep range 6-12 and stay in that range?

Why should a beginner always jump on Starting Strength or 5 x 5 if the goal is to build muscle, not maximum stength? And Strength is mostly neural if done in low rep range.
 
Powerlifters generally train in a low rep range (1-5 reps) while bodybuilders tend to favor a moderate rep range (6-12). The adaptations associated with these rep ranges may explain at least part of the hypertrophic differences between these two classes of athletes (Schoenfeld, 2010).

Performing higher reps would theoretically result in a greater hypertrophy of Type 1 fibers. As previously noted, Type 1 fibers are endurance-oriented and thus respond best to longer times under tension. The low-rep training employed by powerlifters simply doesn't allow enough time under tension for significant development of these fibers (Tesch et al. 1984).

Moderate rep training promotes a greater muscle pump. While the pump is often thought of as a short-term training effect, it may result in greater muscle development. Studies show that cellular swelling causes both an increase in protein synthesis and a decrease in protein breakdown (Grant et al., 2000; Stoll et al., 1992; Millar et al., 1997).

It's theorized that an increase in water within the muscle cell – consistent with the mechanisms associated with "the pump" – is perceived as a threat to its integrity.

In response, the cell initiates a signaling cascade that ultimately causes the muscle to grow larger to protect the ultra-structure. In addition, greater occlusion and hypoxia may be associated with higher rep pump-style training, which can induce growth through increases in growth factor production and possibly satellite cell fusion (Vierck et al., 2000).

Moreover, as previously discussed, training in a moderate rep range promotes sarcoplasmic hypertrophy—an increase in non-contractile elements (McDougall, Sale, Elder, & Sutton, 1982; Tesch, 1988). While this in itself manifests as an increased muscle size, it may also promote additional increases in contractile hypertrophy.

Glycogen is hydrophilic (water loving). Each gram of glycogen attracts three grams of water into the muscle cell (Chan et al. 1982). This increased hydration may thus lead to greater myofibrillar growth through cell swelling mechanisms, providing double-duty for increasing hypertrophic gains.

It's also important to take into account the higher levels of poundage (weight x reps) and time under tension (TUT) performed by bodybuilders in comparison to powerlifters. Let's say a bodybuilder performs a bench press routine consisting of 225 x 12, 275 x 10, 315 x 8, and 335 x 6, while a powerlifter does 315 x 5, 365 x 3, 405 x 1, and 415 x 1. Under this scenario, the bodybuilder lifted 9,980 total pounds while the powerlifter lifted 3,490 total pounds.

Assuming 2 seconds per repetition, the bodybuilder accumulated 72 seconds under tension while the powerlifter accumulated 20 seconds under tension – a significant difference!

In a recent study, high reps to failure were shown to be better than low reps to failure for myofibrillar, sarcoplasmic, and mixed protein synthesis (Burd et al. 2010). Although interesting, more research is required as acute protein synthesis doesn't necessarily correlate to greater hypertrophy over time (Mayhew et al. 2009) and previous studies have found very high rep protocols to be suboptimal for increasing muscle growth (Campos et al. 2002).

More total reps also equates to more eccentric contractions, which have been shown to create more muscular damage. There's a large body of evidence suggesting that muscular damage is associated with increased muscle growth, although research is still inconclusive in this area (Brentano et al. 2011; Komulainen et al. 2000; Zanchi et al. 2010)."
 
You can cut and paste, well done.

Terrible example of powerlifters work sets. Look up some powerlifting programs and see the volume they do. Sheiko for example.
 
theoretically, may result, theorized, may be associated, promotes, may promote, may thus lead.

A lot of weasel words there mate.

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, there are definitely size and strength disparities between powerlifters and bodybuilders, but they're not all people make them out to be. The reasons for them are all theory too. Myofibrillar vs Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is a classic - it's just a theory, from what I've read the muscle autopsies/samples that have been done on powerlifters and bodybuilders show no major differences. A more accepted explanation is neural efficiencies - but these have a limit. You NEED size to move big weights. Hence the hypertrophy focus in so many powerlifting programs.

As one bodybuilding writer said 'If you lift Mickey Mouse weights you will always look like Mickey Mouse'. There is a big correlation between size and strength.

However, if you purely want size definitely train like a bodybuilder, primarily. From what I've seen on internet forums a lot of big blokes have gotten good results doing this. It may be a good idea to mix in heavy training as well though.
 

I may be painful. But why Starting Strength and 5 x 5 are called bodybuilding is just beyond me. Bodybuilding is concerned with building size - this is the priority. Strength is just a by-product and is a necessary part as one needs to continue getting stronger in moderate rep ranges to see growth.
 
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