How to - tricep training, by Rippetoe

[bams_101]

Bams, lined up a PL comp yet?

Sort of. My squat has been annoying me for the past few weeks, so if I can get it back on track I'll compete in a small gym comp in December. If not ill just help out on the day.

Haha I'm not sure whether I was serious or not with that post all I know is that I have done pullups (bad habit of calling them chins) for years without getting much lat development out of it. Always tried to isolate the biceps out of the movement as much as possible and thought the lats had to be doing the rest but it mustn't be that simple. I was never kipping ... don't like that idea much.

The last year or so I have fixed it up a bit and the back is beginning to catch up.

Chins/pull-ups... Only a small difference man, all that matters is that you're grabbing the bar and pulling your body toward it haha.

It could be a few things that has your "lat development" lagging. Do you start dead hang? Do you use a thumbs around the bar grip or straps? Do you go chin to bar or chest to bar?

 

[The Hamburgler]

I've trained there a few times over the last couple of months. I usually train alone, so it's good to get some better lifters looking at form etc. Great bunch of guys. How'd you know that btw? Didn't think anybody on here trained there?

The bigger diameter attachments/bars generally won't let you to take a full grip around the bar or you'll have to use a false grip. Now the forearms are somewhat taken out of the equation and biceps too due to irradiation effects. Less opposition from the antagonist means a greater potential for recruitment for the tri's.

Good guess really lol

Westside + west/north of Melb = been to ESP at least once

Callan and Gingerbread on here would see Dave, Rhys, Shaun Bostock and a couple of others from the gym at MTS

I'd like to train there but I live over an hours drive away . . . And don't have a car lol

 

[bull]

It could be a few things that has your "lat development" lagging. Do you start dead hang? Do you use a thumbs around the bar grip or straps? Do you go chin to bar or chest to bar?

No I wouldn't say that I have started at a dead hang most of the time.

I used straps for years but have discarded them. I use a thumbless grip without straps now on the straight bar or a neutral grip a bit wider than shoulder width.

I pull towards the chest but to about chin level. Don't think my chest has ever made contact with the bar.

 

[0ni]

If pull-ups are not giving you the lat development you want, stop figuring out what you're doing wrong and try another exercise until you find one that works

Fadi and Gooby both like pullovers. I've never done them but they seem like a good logical choice

 

[bull]

If pull-ups are not giving you the lat development you want, stop figuring out what you're doing wrong and try another exercise until you find one that works

Fadi and Gooby both like pullovers. I've never done them but they seem like a good logical choice

Been training since Feb 91 dude. I've tried plenty of stuff. I have always had pretty bad posture and I think I have just got through life without ever learning how to activate those muscles properly. And that is despite making a conscious effort to do so. I have corrected that to some degree and now I just have to learn how to train back like I'm a beginner rather than thinking that I already know what I'm doing or blaming genetics which I was guilty of doing for a long time.

On pullovers, machine pullovers I would do if I had access to a machine, dumbell pullovers are much less likely to lead to anything significant unless I could stand on my head. I have been using bands to try to replicate a machine pullover for a while and I like them.

 

[0ni]

Have you tried just going for a max pump in the lats?
Follow this up with some rack pulls at knee height for a death set of 20 reps with something really heavy

If your lats don't grow from that then you probably have some sort of weird disease lol. That's what DC training suggests for bringing up the lats. Banded pullovers seem awesome, anything that gives a decent pump will be good - as much as it pains me to say that in the PL section lel. You can do pullovers with a straight bar on the cable machine as well, it will look like unracking a barbell but you're standing up if you get me. I see a lot of people doing that exercise

I would see what Gooby has to say about it

 

[The Hamburgler]

I'm a bit like you Bull

For me pull ups are a good substitute for curls
Back exercise not so much

Oni what you are describing is a straight arm lat pulldown

 

[0ni]

What do you do for lats Graeme?
All I'm doing at the moment is the deadlifts with the pause at mid shin to work on tightness and my lats are always sore and are growing quite well lol

 

[jj80]

For lats I do chins and dumbell rows. I'm not a physio or biomechanics expert but I think rows should be included to, doing just chins for the back led to postural problems for me.

For rows I find it important to get a full ROM, and I try not to let my shoulder blades go up as they would in a shrug as I pull my elbow past my body.

When you're doing chins with 80% of your weight attached and rowing 30kg-40kg on dumbells with strict form you won't have anything to complain about with regard to your lats size/strength.

 

[bull]

Have you tried just going for a max pump in the lats?
Follow this up with some rack pulls at knee height for a death set of 20 reps with something really heavy

If your lats don't grow from that then you probably have some sort of weird disease lol. That's what DC training suggests for bringing up the lats. Banded pullovers seem awesome, anything that gives a decent pump will be good - as much as it pains me to say that in the PL section lel. You can do pullovers with a straight bar on the cable machine as well, it will look like unracking a barbell but you're standing up if you get me. I see a lot of people doing that exercise

I would see what Gooby has to say about it

I have trouble feeling them at all. I'm not likely to be able to pump them up under those conditions. Maybe half a dozen times in 20 years have I walked out of a gym with a pump in my lats.

I have self diagnosed with fat lat syndrome. It's a bit like ILS but different. When I'm fat, I think I have a back but then when I get lean it disappears again.

I have done all sorts of stuff over the years. Deadlifted 200 for reps, barbell rows up to 140, weighted pullups, none of it did much for me. I shifted the weight without using the muscles I was supposed to. The best results have come from light weights and perfect form, slow reps and squeezing until I can feel a burn. Have been doing that for over 12 months now and I think I'm making progress. Have to wait until I lose a bit of condition to find out for sure though, it might evaporate again.

 

[bull]

I'm a bit like you Bull

For me pull ups are a good substitute for curls
Back exercise not so much

Oni what you are describing is a straight arm lat pulldown

Yeah mate. I don't know what I use, it's not the biceps but something should be pretty well developed. It's probably the subscapularis or something that you need an MRI to see.

 

[0ni]

I have trouble feeling them at all. I'm not likely to be able to pump them up under those conditions. Maybe half a dozen times in 20 years have I walked out of a gym with a pump in my lats.

I have self diagnosed with fat lat syndrome. It's a bit like ILS but different. When I'm fat, I think I have a back but then when I get lean it disappears again.

I have done all sorts of stuff over the years. Deadlifted 200 for reps, barbell rows up to 140, weighted pullups, none of it did much for me. I shifted the weight without using the muscles I was supposed to. The best results have come from light weights and perfect form, slow reps and squeezing until I can feel a burn. Have been doing that for over 12 months now and I think I'm making progress. Have to wait until I lose a bit of condition to find out for sure though, it might evaporate again.

You might have amnesia in the lats. I've never actually heard of it in the lats before but it's pretty common in the glutes and rhomboids. I'll email around and see if anyone has lat activation exercises to get decent use into them again. It's just another thing to try I guess. Other than that I can't even have a wild stab at what this might be, the lats usually pump quite easily as they are such an important muscle group

 

[The Hamburgler]

What do you do for lats Graeme?
All I'm doing at the moment is the deadlifts with the pause at mid shin to work on tightness and my lats are always sore and are growing quite well lol

Band lat pulldown (on recommendation of Brandon Lilly)
Reverse band row
Chest supported db row
Derriffs

Pre-op I found chugging away on the band pulldowns probably yielded the best results for growth
From memory I was doing 50-100 reps a session over sets of 10-30 x2-3 times a week

Re: paused deads
Probably something I should do to protect the shoulder (tend to get yanked out at 85%+) and help with lockout

 

[0ni]

I really like the paused deadlift
I haven't found a better exercise at teaching you tightness in the abs, lats, erectors, obliques, hamstrings, calves, traps, upper back etc

 

[jj80]

Your lifter didn't pull sumo last night Ben......

Of course I have read them, and I think SS is a good start..... Even though I think the inclusion of cleans is retarded.

Doesn't change the fact he isn't a PL coach.

Do you disagree with the way he teaches tricep extensions?

 

[0ni]

There are hundreds of ways to perform a tricep extension

Are you trying to increase strength or hypertrophy of the triceps? This will split all tricep exercises in two - those that can be performed heavy for low reps and those that can not. Then just pick one you like the look of and get good progression with

People constantly tell me that I "overthink" then threads like this go unnoticed lol. Well 5 seconds of "overthinking" just came up with a very simple answer

 

[jj80]

Strength for benching / OHP if I had to choose

 

[Fadi]

On pullovers, machine pullovers I would do if I had access to a machine, dumbell pullovers are much less likely to lead to anything significant unless I could stand on my head. I have been using bands to try to replicate a machine pullover for a while and I like them.

Sir, have you given cable tricep extensions (with its different variants) a good go? Just curious, and sorry if you already stated one way or the other, I just read your post and nothing else.


Fadi.

 

[bull]

Sir, have you given cable tricep extensions (with its different variants) a good go? Just curious, and sorry if you already stated one way or the other, I just read your post and nothing else.


Fadi.

No Fadi, I haven't done lying extensions with a cable. I have been doing straight arm pulldowns with bands.

 

[Fadi]

No Fadi, I haven't done lying extensions with a cable. I have been doing straight arm pulldowns with bands.

Of course, the above can be done one arm at a time and also using different type of attachments, such as these for example:

Two advantages I find when using the cable machines over other ways of training is

1. Constant muscle tension
2. No stress on the joints (especially if there's a troubling injury)


Fadi.