How to - tricep training, by Rippetoe

[catastrophic]

Firas wrote a thing about this on Body Building dot come (teen section somewhere) and it went a little bit viral and got nasty. However, he mad some valid observations about frequency and movements etc

Scott I do agree that Rippetoe is not a Power Lifter, hes just a random coach at a gym.

Much like all of us; a lot of what he posts is simply trying to make a living and pay the bills. .......

 

[wingman]

sticky/cata/freako/bazza/other strength guys

what do you guys think of starting strength? to little volume for a beginner? to little back work?

I did it when i was a novice (first time around) and worked out with others who were doing it too.

Heres the thing. Most people consider it massive volume (various other forums confirm this) and therefor recommend doing nothing alongside it eg assistance/conditioning. This is because its aimed at beginners who either dont have a clue about recovery, are severely untrained or both.

Reality is its actually pretty low volume. In my experience, novices flourish on higher volume work.

 

[perceive]

I did it when i was a novice (first time around) and worked out with others who were doing it too.

Heres the thing. Most people consider it massive volume (various other forums confirm this) and therefor recommend doing nothing alongside it eg assistance/conditioning. This is because its aimed at beginners who either dont have a clue about recovery, are severely untrained or both.

Reality is its actually pretty low volume. In my experience, novices flourish on higher volume work.

Just to add to this - I think especially for OHP for me without a higher volume I was never going anywhere with that lift. Followed some advice Goosey made in a thread and am now at merely a pathetic 60 kg's OHP as opposed to struggling with 50.

 

[Bazza20]

Really if a beginner cannot progress on starting strength it's not the volume that's the problem. Something else is going on. Beginners will progress on pretty much any decent program.

 

[0ni]

When youre a beginner its really the only time you can train balls out with no negative effects

 

[Goosey]

I trained balls out once.

It's good

 

[Semillon]

When youre a beginner its really the only time you can train balls out with no negative effects

lol

 

[wingman]

When youre a beginner its really the only time you can train balls out with no negative effects

I do most things with my balls out

 

[RyanF]

sticky/cata/freako/bazza/other strength guys

what do you guys think of starting strength? to little volume for a beginner? to little back work?

This isn't actually an attempt to answer your questions (which would probably be a foolish move for me to attempt, anyway), but your post did get me thinking....

For me, SS was, in a way, the gateway drug of strength training. It's not great for powerlifting, it's not great for olympic lifting, and it's not a fully fleshed out strength and conditioning program for any specific athletes. But it was one of the driving forces for getting me interested in strength sports, and that appears to be its effect on others (as soon as they stop worshipping Rippetoe as the highest god and start exploring the world of heavy lifting).

 

[underground]

Enjoy the rookie gains while you can. Shit gets harder and harder down the track.

 

[RyanF]

^ Hi Nick

 

[underground]

^ Hi Nick

What's up homes!

 

[RyanF]

Sore arse after our special time yesterday. By "special time" I mean you pushing me through my 3x10 squats. I can't see any possible way for anyone to interpret that phrase otherwise, but felt it required explanation anyway.

 

[underground]

This is good.

 

[catastrophic]

Enjoy the rookie gains while you can. Shit gets harder and harder down the track.

When you start making 18 month plans you know shits gone wrong .......

 

[bams_101]

Bugger. I think I've been doing chins with my triceps for 20 years, certainly wasn't my lats anyway.

lol No I think you've probably been doing them right mate, as long as you weren't kipping. The long head of the tri wont contribute much when doing pullups, even less with chins.

The only thing I didn't like was Ripp saying it's ok to be "out of control" of the movement. I think some could take it the wrong way.

 

[The Hamburgler]

Bams, meant to ask; you don't train at ESP do you?

Yeah Darkoz I have always fixed the shoulder with my elbows about at my forehead and lowered the bar behind my head. There is no movement at the shoulder and at full extension my arms are at about 45 degrees. Don't see the point of ending with the arms vertical, there is no resistance at lockout like that. I'd rather keep some tension in the muscle throughout.

Makes them 50x harder to do that way lol
The other way I've found effective is the way Louie Simmons recommends which is to lower the bar just above the throat whilst lifting the elbows as high as possible then extending from there. Keeps tension at the bottom but not lockout unless you don't fully extend

Dave Tate and that Mountain Dog Training guy suggest using thicker (eg 50mm) attachments/bars for Tricep work as you're less likely to recruit other muscle vs a standard size (28-30mm). Never tried it myself, or know of anyone personally who has tried it but an interesting concept none-the-less

 

[adamklam]

Bams, meant to ask; you don't train at ESP do you?



Makes them 50x harder to do that way lol
The other way I've found effective is the way Louie Simmons recommends which is to lower the bar just above the throat whilst lifting the elbows as high as possible then extending from there. Keeps tension at the bottom but not lockout unless you don't fully extend

Dave Tate and that Mountain Dog Training guy suggest using thicker (eg 50mm) attachments/bars for Tricep work as you're less likely to recruit other muscle vs a standard size (28-30mm). Never tried it myself, or know of anyone personally who has tried it but an interesting concept none-the-less

I'll give that a crack after PR4 - ill use my fat grip things.

Bams, lined up a PL comp yet?

 

[bull]

lol No I think you've probably been doing them right mate, as long as you weren't kipping. The long head of the tri wont contribute much when doing pullups, even less with chins.

The only thing I didn't like was Ripp saying it's ok to be "out of control" of the movement. I think some could take it the wrong way.

Haha I'm not sure whether I was serious or not with that post all I know is that I have done pullups (bad habit of calling them chins) for years without getting much lat development out of it. Always tried to isolate the biceps out of the movement as much as possible and thought the lats had to be doing the rest but it mustn't be that simple. I was never kipping ... don't like that idea much.

The last year or so I have fixed it up a bit and the back is beginning to catch up.

 

[bams_101]

Bams, meant to ask; you don't train at ESP do you?

Dave Tate and that Mountain Dog Training guy suggest using thicker (eg 50mm) attachments/bars for Tricep work as you're less likely to recruit other muscle vs a standard size (28-30mm). Never tried it myself, or know of anyone personally who has tried it but an interesting concept none-the-less

I've trained there a few times over the last couple of months. I usually train alone, so it's good to get some better lifters looking at form etc. Great bunch of guys. How'd you know that btw? Didn't think anybody on here trained there?

The bigger diameter attachments/bars generally won't let you to take a full grip around the bar or you'll have to use a false grip. Now the forearms are somewhat taken out of the equation and biceps too due to irradiation effects. Less opposition from the antagonist means a greater potential for recruitment for the tri's.